April 15th, 2005, 03:27 PM
Not saying I agree or disagree (I haven't been through the whole site), but I think this is interesting so far...
April 15th, 2005, 04:12 PM
Scwinn,I read some of it,lots to read,every group has it's agenda,as does whoever put out this site.
Myself,I am a meat-eater,could not possibly survive on beans and sprouts :D
There are some things where I agree with PETA,animal-testing for cosmetics or other products should not be necessary in 2005,the pain and suffering for these poor animals are horrendous.
The fur-industry,with trapping and killing sometimes endangered animals,we also do not need anymore,who NEEDS to wear a dead animal???
Hunting,period,is just another blood-sport....kill a wolf,a mountainlion or a bear,even seals,what's the purpose,why???To feel like the big macho hunter??
Even medical research has run it's course,some we just don't need anymore,although great strides have been made through medical research on animals.I hate to think of any animal being prodded and tortured all the days of his life,it could be your dog or one of my cats and I wish it would not be happening anymore.
April 15th, 2005, 08:57 PM
My man's dad hunts and I tell him it's unnatural. He says it's all part of the food chain and we're higher up than them so we get to eat them. I say "If you can chase after the deer or whatever and kill it with your fork, THEN you can eat it." Shooting a deer from over a km away is not food chain economics. In nature the prey have a chance-- survival of the fittest. How do you give a fit deer a chance when you're so far away with a scope? I guess the fit ones will become the ones who feel a stare....
As for organizations-- I cringe at the WWF commercial now-- about how if we're not careful, "The only polar bears your children will see will be in pictures". I'm sorry but unless you're LOADED and can go venture to the arctic or you go to a really cruel zoo are you going to see one alive and in person. I have only seen polar bears on tv or in pictures. Not a very good selling point...
April 15th, 2005, 09:11 PM
I peeked in at that site and at the right hand side was a group known as Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine. Now I do not know what problems this groups has with PC for Resp Medicine but it has done tremendouss good in the world! I know because I have spent countless hours on the firing line (literally) in war zones with Les Mededins Sans Frontieres (a group with some of the same people) and until anyone in that group can honestly say they have put their life on the line to help another, I won't read it either!! I am a little furious so I won't type - I may say the wrong thing. They prob dislike the org's campaign against nuclear disarmamemt - Helen Caldicott is one of the more active members of the group.
If we are discussing hunting- well, I live in a region where people do actually hunt - deer, moose season and birds as well. I do not actively campaign against it (tho I did run into Bullwinkle by accident ;) ) but I don't care for killing for sport. I fail to see the excitement. I do love being in the woods and have an aunt in NS who got the biggest deer one year because she and her husband like wild game (and she has a couple of much loved cats!) so while it is not my lifestyle, I am aware that others do it. My dad never owned a gun and hated it as well - except for my aunt and her husband, none of us welcome "hunting season".
I think these people need to check their facts re: the Physicians Committee tho. I know some people in that organization may be quite left wing but I suspect it is the opposite for the group that put up this site. (Going to check out who registered it, lol) Trust me, working for Les Medecins can make even the most jaded slightly to the right of Atilla the Hun type be very angry at the rest of the world. When you see children dying because they have no access to simple basic medications, including vaccines and know that these are all available in the west, it is enough to be physically ill. It especially upsets me that children die in Africa daily of AIDs because their parents - if they are still alive - cannot obtain the meds necessary and even if they were, they'd be unaffordable. There is lots of talk but not much action by our politicians I am afraid and this situation in Africa will be a time when future historians look back and wonder what kind of people lived in the rest of the word and allowed this atricity to happen! It will be viewed in the same way we now regard the Halocaust or the Great Hunger in Ireland (I know many call it a famine but in fact there was lots of food - it was just being shipped OUT of the country - but that is a whole other story and thread!)
April 15th, 2005, 09:16 PM
I fail to see the excitement.
Wouldn't it be WAYYY more exciting to try to give a wild animal a hug? Talk about adrenaline..
As for the AIDS thing, CK, we had an AIDS researcher and the things she told us about Africa... Apparently it is a conscious decision by the Western world leaders to not give Africans HIV meds.
April 15th, 2005, 09:19 PM
The problem with trophy sports is that kill the biggest/strongest of the species.Coming mating season the quality stock is gone and the inferior males/females are breed.This will dilute the quality of the species.Studies have shown over the years this has happened and in the next 20 years poor breeding will cause more damage to the herds than hunting.
Don't eat red meat/pork, working on cutting out chicken
PETA has their own agenda,be carefull
Polar bears belong in the north not the zoo as entertainment.Zoo's in themselves are not the best pace for the animals.Could you live in a zoo?
With the million of species do we need to live with all of them?.Keep the bugs away from meand what is the name of the largest selling bug spray , how about the garden bugs, we kill them .Where do you draw the line.
April 15th, 2005, 10:44 PM
I am not a fan of PETA. Nuff said on that. If Melanie were here, I'd ask her to elaborate on all the reasons why. She's got an impressive list, and an entertaining way of presenting it, as well. She's the one who inspired me to really do some research on PETA quite a while back.
Hunting makes no sense to me. We cut into the animals' natural habitat to build our farms, meat plants and grocery stores so that we can have a regular supply of meat. Then we spend about 1,000 dollars in hunting equipment and licenses, drive PAST said farms/meat plants/grocery stores into the tiny amount of natural habitat that we have left them- to kill them for food.
The logic escapes me.
I do, however, respect anyone who honestly has to hunt to survive or feed their family. In this day and age, that is a rarity, but it does happen. These folks usually can't afford the licenses, etc and do it "illegally", but that's another story.
I eat very little meat, especially birds. Just grosses me out completely.
April 16th, 2005, 05:06 AM
Re: Wouldn't it be WAYYY more exciting to try to give a wild animal a hug? Talk about adrenaline..
Uhm... no!!! I gave a moose a hug with my vehicle last fall - said vehicle is now history and I almost was and the moose is as well, Poor Bullwinkle!
April 16th, 2005, 08:21 AM
I believe regarding the Polar Bear,it is an environmental issue and yes,I would hate to see them becoming extinct.I have no plans on visiting the Arctic any time soon,I am perfectly happy seeing them on TV,but they like all creatures have a right to a small part of this earth,a right to live....
I do not go to Zoo's,circuses or such,but that is my perogative,I don't enjoy the hopeless-ness and sadness of captured animals,be they Wolves,Tigers or whatever,,
As for Peta or WWf or any organization,I am sure they do some good work,especially the WWF,but my money goes to my local Humane Society,where I know some good is being done.We are constantly inundated with requests for money from different groups,with horrid letters of abuse and we would be broke,if I supported them all.
If we all followed our concience,did our bit,protected the wildlife around us(by not using pesticide etc..) and spoke up when there is a need,this world would be a better place.
April 16th, 2005, 12:42 PM
I hope no one thought I was against saving polar bears or anything- just against the ad...
The only "zoo" I go to is the Ecomuseum. They have wild animals who were injured and cannot fend for themselves in the wild (So they say...) and only ones from here so it's not terribly unnatural. Any one disagree?
April 18th, 2005, 09:51 AM
I think it'd be nice to find a site that was presenting info in a non-partisan and unbiased way. I also think it be nice to have wings and fly, however.
I've always said the biggest problem with special interest groups is it's like a tug of war. One side starts pulling, then the other starts pulling. Suddenly, it's not about keeping the flag in the middle, but about pulling it to the other side. If you get one side that pulls REAL hard (ie. PETA) then the other side, pulls equally hard. Instead of everyone trying to meet in the middle, and saying "Maybe", it becomes YES vs NO. I've always said, there are three sides to the issues. One side, the other, and the truth. You have to see both sides to find the truth.
As for hunting? I don't see the sport in it. I used to love shooting targets with my bow and arrow, and I've always liked guns. That being said, I wouldn't enjoy killing an animal, and would much rather shoot my buddies with a paintball gun. Never tried it, but for some reason, it always seemed like an enjoyable sport where you can have a pal have to stand for a week because you've left a big welt on his butt! :D
April 18th, 2005, 10:00 AM
I've always said, there are three sides to the issues. One side, the other, and the truth. You have to see both sides to find the truth.
Schwinn, you've hit it bang-on with this one. :thumbs up
As for paintballing - this is hubby's latest "hobby". :rolleyes: Let me tell you, it can be very addictive, and can get VERY expensive! He and his buddies bought their own equipment, so they don't have to rent. One little word of advice - buy from Ebay. And yes, it appears to be lots of fun for them to compare welts the next day. :confused: Must be a guy thing. ;)