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Humping Issue

kimbilly
April 13th, 2005, 08:04 PM
As some have read I am currently fostering a 3 year old beagle that has come from a bad home. He is a great dog that just loves affection. We have one problem tho’ and it is turning out to be an issue. He has been neutered, but He constantly tries to hump other dogs. He doesn’t just mount them, he get right into it. In the beginning we thought it could be a dominance thing, but I am not sure.

Tonight we went to visit a prospective home. They have a 14 year old beagle mix and she can not handle him mounting her. He was really persistent and was really getting into it.

How do we stop this. I have been working on it for the last week with positive reinforcement, but it only seems to help with our dog.

Help??

CyberKitten
April 13th, 2005, 09:12 PM
If it is not a medical problem - no hormonal disorder or that he is cryptorchid (Still has his testicles), buy him a stuffed "dog". You can get them at pet stores but it is probably cheaper to just get a plush toy. If the behaviour really bothers you, you might consult a behaviouist. But, my neutered male bunny also tried humping my beagle, various visiting kitties, my socks. I bought him a Beanie Baby buddy bunny - almost the same size as him (He was a Dwarf Netherland bun) - and the two were inseperable. Love at first sight or is that sniff, lol

The fact is sometimes neutered animals, especially males, will still want to act out. The Beanie buddy I bought T was one of the best investments I ever made.

goldenblaze
April 13th, 2005, 09:58 PM
CyberKitten
Please tell me does he hump the beanie buddy?
I have this problem with Jordie :o he humps every dog that comes here Blaze too. When he was younger he use to hump toys, I was so :o when people were around, I tried to stop him and he would just pull the toy away and continue.
Jord is neutered, doesn't really do toys any more, he prefers real dogs :eek:
One time a friend was here Jordie was humping her leg, as I looked at her for letting him do this to her she said she was giving him a horse ride, she really thought nothing of it..but I hate it.

CyberKitten
April 13th, 2005, 10:12 PM
Alas, my much beloved bunny died two yrs ago. (I still cannot type or talk about him without getting a lump in my throat and I wonder if I ever will be able to discuss him less emotionally, sigh?)

Yes, he did indeed hump the beanie buddy. The buddies are the larger toys - bigger than the actual Beanies. And his buddy is Nibbles (I still have him). Nibbles was just a little bit smaller than my bunny and the two of them went everywhere. Now mind you, some nights, when he'd sit under the computer desk as I worked (a fav spot for him to play and just be), he eyed my socks rather curiously, lol

This topic came up many months ago on the Board and I recall Lucky Rescue noting that "Boys will be boys". I think this was the case here. T did not do it around too many other humans tho on a few occasions he did - usually when I had company for dinner. It did not bother me - tho I told T he could have chosen a more discrete location to have his way with Nibbles.

Prin
April 13th, 2005, 10:15 PM
I pm'd you, kim... I don't believe that giving a doll will correct the behavior with other dogs. He has to be taught that this behavior is not right and you will not allow it. It can lead to fights and aggression when other dogs assert themselves..

goldenblaze
April 13th, 2005, 10:24 PM
It can lead to fights and aggression when other dogs assert themselves..

That is why I worry, last Sunday we has a female golden here 5 yrs old. Jordie was on her everytime she went to lay down, she did not like it much. I don't allow him to do this I do stop him but he will keep trying.

Sorry about your bunny... I know how it feels to miss a pet that we loved so much.

CyberKitten
April 13th, 2005, 10:33 PM
Yep, I was fortunate in having only one bunny - not sure what would have happened there. I do not mean to suggest his behaviour was out of control and I can see where it might look more objectionable in a larger animal. Thx for the support. He is at Rainbow Ridge, hopping around with my poodle and cats and beagle and our Suberian Husky from when I was a child and we'll all have a great party some day. <g>

With all due respect, Prin, it was hardly a doll - I thought you were studying veternary medicine? This is an issue often discussed or you disagree with other vets on that? Can I ask why? Just the aggression concern?

I guess it depends on how it affects the specfic dog and other dog(s). I would think if it a frequent problem and causes other problems, that is another matter and one you might discuss with your vet.

My poodle did it only occasionally after he was neutered but seemed to forget about it after a few months. I never had to buy him a toy and actually at that point in my life, did not even know those things existed. He was still a puppy though and he may have attempted to hump the cat's leg 2-3 times the week post neuter. That was it, thankfully.

Prin
April 13th, 2005, 10:43 PM
You know what, I'll post what I wrote in the pm-- I am a bit afraid because some of you may disagree, but if it benefits anyone, I'll be ok with any criticisms... (I'm not afraid of YOU.. :p ok, yes I am...)

Any humping, other than for sex, is dominance. I don't know if you have a trainer at your disposal but to correct this problem, I believe you are going to have to get physical. What I do with dogs at our park who do this (the owners don't mind because humping can lead to serious fights), is I grab the neck fur and remove the dog from whatever he is humping, and say "no".

You have to be aggressive, as he is an older dog and has gotten away with it so far. If the "humpee" is accepting it, then there is no correction, so you have to jump in. You are the alpha dog and you have to tell him what is appropriate and what is not. I have spent so much time observing dog behavior and even dogs do it to each other. If a dog humps a dog that my big Boo is possessive of, he will go and first bark in the dog's ear and then bite the back of the neck and take the dog off.

You have to reinforce it every time until he knows you will react right away and he won't get away with it ever.

If the dog screams when you grab the neck fur, it is just dominance. It does not hurt, but you can't let go just because they scream. I have had some super screamers, and if you hold on until they stop screaming, they won't scream the next time. They overreact to their first immobilization in life but adapt quickly. You just can't be afraid of your dog though, you have to be confident and assertive.

Your dog has to know that he is not allowed to dominate anyone while you are around because YOU are the alpha and that is ALL that matters.

Sorry if most of you disagree but boys will not be boys. Females do it too if you let them. It is really not a good idea to let this slide, especially if the dog will be around other dogs often. It's lacking in manners among other things. People don't like it at all when your dog hops on and won't stop-- it is very annoying. The underdog gets stressed and submissive, if not aggressive and angry, and in extreme cases ends up with diarrhea.

Beaglemom
April 14th, 2005, 07:31 AM
Any humping, other than for sex, is dominance.

Prin, I was also thinking that this is a dominance issue. A dog who is fixed will hump others to show/prove its dominance. I also think that a trainer with experience in this kind of behaviour be consulted.

Eleni
April 14th, 2005, 07:47 AM
I agree with Prin, even tho I dont normally agree with physical correction for dogs.

my brothers dog is a very dominant dog, and every time I took my daughter over there he would try to hump her, problem is shes only 2-3 ft tall, shes 4 and his dog is an austrailian shepard.

she was knocked to the ground every time, and we would have to pull the dog away and lock him in teh bathroom.

my brother tried all the gentle methods of stopping his dog, spraying it with water, trying the leave it command , everything and nothing worked [the dog is neutered]

my brother eventually got frustrated not wanting the dog to hurt his neice or nefews, he did what prin suggested

eventually the dog did get the message to cut it out and has since stopped.


the dog is usually a well behaved dog and isnt aggressive to my kids, but this humping issue quickly became a safety issue.

Eleni

LittleLoves
April 14th, 2005, 08:41 AM
Thank God for this post!


My 2 1/2 female does this to me all the time. If I step towards my husband to hug him, she is on my leg in a heartbeat! She's very possessive of me.

Prin, how do you do the neck grab? What are you grabbing at?

Whew!

Gripenfelter
April 14th, 2005, 09:10 AM
My dog will first rip the eyes out of his stuffed animals and then proceed to humping them.

Doesn't want them to see the nasty things he does to them. :crazy:

If he was human it would be a sign that he's going to be a serial killer when he grows up. :D

Princesss04
April 14th, 2005, 10:00 AM
My dog will first rip the eyes out of his stuffed animals and then proceed to humping them.

Doesn't want them to see the nasty things he does to them. :crazy:

If he was human it would be a sign that he's going to be a serial killer when he grows up. :D


Gripenfelter... LOL.... :D Poor stuffed animals.

Meatloaf is fixed and I have never seen him do this except for when my little cousin is around, she is four, and the minute she walks in the room Meat is over there and working it. LOL I was like Alyissa do not let him do that. She was like what he just likes me cause we are best friends. It was all we could do to keep from laughing but when you tell Meater no he will stop. Now Chino has done it a few times to Meater but not that often. He is not fixed yet as the vet wants to wait and see if his testicle will drop. (We need some dropping action from Chino) LOL :D

Eleni
April 14th, 2005, 10:02 AM
wow maybe dogs have a thing for 4 yr old girls ?? LOL

sam doesnt hump anythign and hes being fixed as soon as the vet can get him in

he gets his final shots on saturday, if the vet said we could neuter him monday he would be in there monday morning bright and early LOL


im hoping neutering him early enough will prevent humping

Eleni

Princesss04
April 14th, 2005, 10:05 AM
Meatloaf was fixed early (when he was suppose to) and we never had a problem with him execpt around Alyssa.LOL :D

kimbilly
April 14th, 2005, 10:19 AM
Prin, Thank you for the suggestion. I had done the scruff thing a few times, but was not sure if it was the right way to go.

At home with us he knows he is doing wrong and i just have to stand up when he is doing it and he stops straight away, so it is a step in the right direction.

Angus will be having a trial period at his new home, so I will let the family know what to do. The 14 year old will not react to him, so human intervention is required.

It is something to worry about for sure as he has made dogs grumpy already. He has a habit of nibbling at other dogs "parts" too, that is another thing alot of dogs do not like.

I really hope he figures out quickly as this may be an issue when finding him a forever home :(

Thanks again.

Prin
April 14th, 2005, 04:35 PM
Prin, how do you do the neck grab? What are you grabbing at? I'm grabbing the fur from the back of the neck. It makes a nice little handle. It's also the best place to grab if you are ever separating a fight (you have to turn the head away from you when you do that though to avoid biting...)

Humping along with jumping up on everybody is dominance. It is also why the doggies appear to like 4 year old girls-- they are easy to overpower. At our park, dogs can pick out the submissive personalities in humans and only a select few get jumped on by EVERY dog.

If the issue is dominance, it will not go away with neutering if it is occurring before the big op. It really has to be corrected. Some people disagree with correcting it and say it's in their natural urges, but I say, maybe so, but it causes aggression and is an escalation step and I would rather stop that to prevent a fight rather than have to separate a fight between two dogs I may or may not know.

CyberKitten
April 14th, 2005, 06:27 PM
I am not an expert in dog behaviour by any means (I know much more about cats and bunnies) but I just hate any kind of physical behaviour training. I've read studies that show it leads to even more aggressive behaviour and if it were my dog, I'd rather have a little bit of humping than an aggressive dog.

A more serious humping prob might require a behaviourist? Are there other ways to teach who is the leader of the pack without resorting to grabbing the dog. I guess it is because I've seen too many horrible child abuse cases in the ER or even children whose parents neglected their dog by hitting it and it thus took out its frustration on the child for me to ever condone what you suggest Prin. I am not saying you hurt the dog (my example is why I feel the way I do, that's all) - I just wonder what alternatives there are.

My rabbit's humping behaviour never bothered me and since he was neutered, I knew he was OK - that it was just some hangover from when he was younger. I never picked him up by the scruff of the neck - everything I have read recomemnds NOT to do that. (I know vets will do it on occasion but that is just on occasion!). Bunnies at least need to feel secure. Is the same not true for dogs????

I am not debating - just wondering about solving the problem in an alternate manner.

Eleni
April 14th, 2005, 07:05 PM
I never realisd jumping up was dominance, I thought it was teh dog trying to greet whomever hes jumping up on.


Sam jumps on people quite alot, but we are still working on manners with him, hes slowly improving


Eleni

Prin
April 14th, 2005, 08:10 PM
CK-- humping is only a problem if the dog is often around other dogs and acts consistently. In these cases, I don't feel that grabbing the neck fur is extreme considering the alternative for that dog could be fighting. There are people at our park who have gone to training schools that use only positive reinforcement techniques and they finished several levels of training, but in the end they use the neck fur too. In areas of dominance, it is very unproductive to use positive reinforcement. And this method works and has no effect on the dogs' other behaviors or their fear level.

There are some behaviors where you can't just wait for the dog to stop so you can praise him when he stops. Just the same, there are dogs who don't respond at all to positive reinforcement. When a dog is 3 years old and has never had any discipline from any human ever, you have to be a bit more forceful to prove to him that humans are stronger than he has seen.

Pulling on neck fur is not at all like abusing a child. Kids could never play like dogs do without getting seriously hurt. Dogs have loads of extra skin for a reason. We grab my big Boo by the skin all the time and he really doesn't mind. I mean you could be standing there holding his neck fur and he'll just stay there willingly. Sure, any physical method can turn into abuse but most people here are pretty responsible and even if they aren't, they are probably already abusing their dogs, even before this thread.

It is really hard to explain things in writing without showing but I try my best to describe things so less can go wrong. Trust me when I say that people who totally disagree with my methods always rely on me when something goes wrong. The truth is, dogs are not people, they are not kids, and they can be very dangerous. When a dog is in a household with kids or with other dogs or other pets, everything has to be done to ensure the safety of everyone in the household.

Yes, abuse can lead to agression but there is a huge difference between grabbing a dog by the neck fur and throwing, beating and hitting a dog. Dog ancestors were not naturally beaten in the wild, but they were and still are grabbed by the neck fur. Dogs grab each other by the neck way harder than I do when they are playing.

As for the jumping, a lot of schools tell you to lift your knee to stop the dog, but I feel strongly that it is a dominance issue and that the knee, going from under the dog, doesn't correct the dominance. Dominance has to be stopped from above. Blocking the dog with your still, open hand works much faster and easier. You just catch the dog's head with your palm. It sets a level that the dog cannot pass and the dog realizes that you set the limits to his jumping. Once you get good at predicting his jumping, you can lower your hand so the level is lower and lower, but usually the dog will stop jumping on you completely after two or three unsuccessful tries.

raingirl
April 14th, 2005, 09:00 PM
(regarding the neck grabbing thing. Funny you should mention it. But what if your dog has too much skin?? It's just funny because I imagine if I tried to do that with Odin, it would do nothing, as he has handfuls of extra skin that you can just lift off him without him even noticing)