Pets.ca - Pet forum for dogs cats and humans 

-->

Not sure how to react to this...

heeler's rock!
April 12th, 2005, 01:40 PM
Hubby was walking our 3 dogs around the pond by our house yesterday as he does everyday and he usually lets them off leash back there as a lot of people do that, and they love running and jumping around. When I got home, he told me that this lady with an accent, he thinks Polish, gave him crap for having them off leash! She said that she's talked to some neighbours and they're all afraid for their small children with so many dogs running around. (I don't think she was just reffering to us, but who knows.) Our dogs are GREAT off leash and we've never EVER had a problem with them. Most people know us and our dogs and love seeing them out running around. Also, most small kids approach us and our dogs to pet them! We also keep the leashes on us at all times, incase we need to use them. Whenever they're off leash, they're also in the middle of training, so it's not like it's all just fun and games.

Then, she admits that one of the "concerned" people called animal services to send out a bylaw officer to give out tickets to off leash dogs a few weeks ago! We remembered that night too, as Carlos (hubby) was walking them off leash by the houses on the sidewalk on his way home, and a lady came running out to warn him of the bylaw officer. He thanked her, and she said no problem as she knows our dogs are well behaved and didn't want us getting a ticket. He saw the officer, and he only had our 2 youngest dogs on leash as they wander a bit more than Red, our oldest. She saw Red offleash, and didn't do a thing! She probably didn't do anything because Red weren't unruly.

We've even been complimented by on duty police officers on how good they are! A bus driver pulled over just to tell us how good she thought they were too! We also clean up after everyone else's dogs that poop there!

We've never had an issue until now, and I'm not sure if I should be ticked, or complient and leash them all the time now. Carlos told her our dogs are good, and the whole time she was yapping, they just hung around, sniffing and not doing anything bad. What would you guys do?? :confused:

Eleni
April 12th, 2005, 01:46 PM
honestly my feeligns might be the minority on this one, but I beleive unless your in a dog park then all dogs should be leashed while in public.

im looking at it from a moms point of view and a pet owner.

the mom in me is frightened that there will be a dog my child doesnt know off leash and could possibly attack my child or myself

the dog owner in me was actually faced with this a week ago, someone had their doberman off leash and it wandered up to sammy and i while sam was on leash, I gotta say it made my heart beat a little, then the owner showed up I asked them to put the dog on leash and that was the end of it this also was in public, not at a dog park or at someones home.

I dont go to dog parks with sam because I want to know any dogs he is around, call me protective

im sure your dogs are well trained, but its unfortunate that not everyone trains their dogs, so itbecomes a valid worry if you see a dog off leash fof what the dog could possibly be capable of.



Eleni

Luvmypit
April 12th, 2005, 01:52 PM
Hmmm. You know your dogs best. I honestly think this must be the only lady that is "concerned". I would check with neighbours as to what they think. they are the ones who have to deal with it. The thing might be that other dogs are not as behaved and how can you tell some dog owners to leash there dogs and others don't have to. Maybe she has more of an issue with the other dogs. If the bylaw officers didn't do anything it was probably that they didnt see an issue and realized that it was probably a disgruntled neighbour. I would keep doing what you are doing. Is this little area near alot of people or children?

heeler's rock!
April 12th, 2005, 01:55 PM
I can understand your point of view, and I'm going to be a mom myself soon so my perceptions may change. I'd just like to know what's safer, having my 3 dogs offleash who are no threat to anyone, or to have the dozens of little kids walk dogs twice their size on leash, while being dragged around?

There's a little girl who's been going around from door to door, asking if she can walk people's dogs for them. People are actually saying yes!! I saw her with a lab cross, and she was dragging him across the road, and his collar was coming off. That's not very safe to me, and I would be more afraid of that, than 2 adults walking their dogs offleash. I'm sure you're probably not going to be a minority on this one, as I'm sure many people here feel the same way you do. Maybe we should just start leashing them so they can have no fun there. The dogs parks are too busy for training, so we only take them there to play and we can't everyday as they're a bit of a drive from our house. We also don't have a yard yet, so that's not an option.

nymph
April 12th, 2005, 01:56 PM
I completely agree with elani on this one, even though I would LOVE to have my pup running unleashed. However most Canadian cities require dogs to be leashed unless in designated unleashed areas. Unleashed dogs are a danger to people afraid of dogs (oh yes some people are even afraid of retrievers), a danger to other dogs and even a danger to themselves.

heeler's rock!: I whole-heartedly believe that your dogs are fully trained and that both you and your husband are responsible owners, I totally understand you. Unfortunately we live in a city, and we have to abide by the rules, it's really not a choice. IMHO, other people doing it does not give you the right to do the same.

As dog owners, we could fight for more dog-friendly parks/areas while respecting the right of others, what do you think?

heeler's rock!
April 12th, 2005, 01:58 PM
Is this little area near alot of people or children?

No, it's a relatively big area, but during summer, more people and kids are out and about. I've never had a negative complaint until now. I've even had people look out their windows when we're training, and they're just shocked that our dogs listen so well. We've worked so hard at getting them to be good dogs offleash, and to take it away like that, through no fault of their own, just tears me up. But I also don't wanna cause trouble....

Eleni
April 12th, 2005, 02:01 PM
I agree young children shouldnt be walking dogs.

Eleni

nymph
April 12th, 2005, 02:01 PM
No, it's a relatively big area, but during summer, more people and kids are out and about. I've never had a negative complaint until now. I've even had people look out their windows when we're training, and they're just shocked that our dogs listen so well. We've worked so hard at getting them to be good dogs offleash, and to take it away like that, through no fault of their own, just tears me up. But I also don't wanna cause trouble....

Again I really feel for you. Are there no off-leash parks in your area at all? In the city of Ottawa, we only have 2 off-leash parks, the nearest would take me a good 15 min drive, but that's the only place I could have my pup legally running unleashed. :sad:

Gazoo
April 12th, 2005, 02:13 PM
I live in Calgary too, and I think the leash laws are authoritarian and fascist. ;)

In a city like Calgary with wide open and I mean wide open spaces everywhere...why should dogs be leashed if they are under control and the owner cleans up after them?

......just b/c some idiot owners don't control their animals?!?! That's not right!!!

That being said I do not let my dogs approach children or adults when they are off leash and if there are a lot of other people around I do leash them.

BTW.... I also speed occasionally and question the legitimacy of all levels of government :D

Gazoo
April 12th, 2005, 02:15 PM
I totally understand you. Unfortunately we live in a city, and we have to abide by the rules, it's really not a choice. IMHO, other people doing it does not give you the right to do the same.




Only when the rules are fair and just to everyone.......................

Eleni
April 12th, 2005, 02:18 PM
I think the dogs being well behaved off leash are a great thing, where my problem lies is how does the passers by recognise the fact that your dog is safe and the dog 2 blocks down isnt, there isnt much way to tell untill the dog has either approached you or hasnt.

and by the time a badly trained dog has approached you could could be too late, he could ahve knocked my toddler over already or worst case scenario bitten someone.

If everyones dog were well trained it would be great to see all the dogs off leash.

however there is no way to know wich dogs are trained and wich arent.


Eleni

nymph
April 12th, 2005, 02:19 PM
Only when the rules are fair and just to everyone.......................

then make it into your agenda to change it!

Actually after reading many post in this forum, I'm not even sure if I'd want to unleash my pup in the off-leash dog parks anymore.

savannah
April 12th, 2005, 02:33 PM
I also think that unless it is a leash-free park, that all dogs should be leashed, whether they are 6lbs or 106 lbs or well behaved. As a mom who takes her daughter and her dog for walks (one 'baby' in each hand), i already have my hands full and my attention focused on enough things, and the last thing i want to worry about when on walks is to see if there are any dogs walking around leash free.

Also, many people are afraid of dogs. I have a few friends who are terrified to the point of tears when they see dogs without a leash heading in their direction.
Perhaps many of us have had bad experiences with dogs off leash. I know i did when i was pregnant and was walking my dog, and an off leash dog confronted me and my dog. The owner was close by, but could hardly control her dog when she reached us. Luckily, no one was hurt.

Shamrock
April 12th, 2005, 03:07 PM
Hmm, this is a tough one..
I agree that though she included "others"..its more likely just her that has the problem.
As mentioned, some people see potential danger in all dogs, no matter how well behaved, and a few dogs together is more of a perceived threat - what represents a "pack" to them

Your dogs are well under control, and are using the time for training as well. .
I see many people doing this exact thing, it certainly doesnt bother me.

The flip side, the uncontrolled. I've had friendly dogs jump up on me with huge muddy paws, agresssive dogs sizing up mine for a light snack..and a group of dogs rush up who just plain scared me with their numbers alone.

But cant know from a distance how it will unfold.
A mental "alert" is always needed whenever dogs arent leashed until the situation can be sized up, especially if there are children present.
Some people resent this.. and dont mind saying so.

If she lady is determined to "rectify" this situation,and is a neighbour... she will likely reappear again.
I dont know what i would do in your situation, Heelers Rock.

I have a six pound dog, but keep him leashed in public places.
As unlikely at it seems, I have actually encountered people who have displayed fear/ revulsion at his presence anywhere near them.

happycats
April 12th, 2005, 03:19 PM
I know how I feel when an unleashed dog comes running up to me, scared *****less !!! I have no idea if the dog is friendly or is going to attack me!
When I walk with my son I feel even more scared and vulnerable, and yes I have yelled at owners whose dog has come running at myself and my son !!

If you can't control your dog 100% while off leash it sould't be off leash,(If you see a child of someone coming the dog MUST heel and not be allowed to run at people) .

There is a way around it though, do what I did, get up at 5:00am every morning (before people are out and about) and let your dog run loose in the park to it's hearts content !!!!

Beetlecat
April 12th, 2005, 04:33 PM
Thankfully, I live in a city where there are atleast 40 designated off-leash areas.

I'm an advocate of keeping your dog leashed unless you are in an off-leash area. It is simply amazing how many uncontrollable off-leash dogs I have met in my mere 5 months off being a city dog owner. Thankfully, none of them were dangerous, but it sure freaked me out when Ky was just a 12 week old pup and a huge St Bernard bounded his way over to us, while making scary noises, and started trying to play with Ky. I mean, Ky was praticaly the size of this dog's paw and it was trying to play. I was scared it was going to run into Ky and crush him or something.

It's funny in a sad way when a strange dog runs across the street to meet my dog, his owner calling "here boy. come rover. come on rover." in a singsong voice and the dog is just totally ignoring its owner. It always makes me want to shake the owners and ask them ,"What the heck are you thinking?" I had a couple run up to us, sniff, and run away again when the owner comes near.

Anyways, that's my tangent :) I personally hate it when a dog runs up to me and/or my dog (especially when we're training) and so I never let my dog do that to anyone else, which means leaving him on a leash, unless I am reasonably certain I can keep control of him.

If your dogs can be off leash and stick within several feet of you and can be called back from interacting with other humans and/or dogs, then let them off leash. Otherwise, keep them on one.

mona_b
April 12th, 2005, 04:44 PM
I think the dogs being well behaved off leash are a great thing, where my problem lies is how does the passers by recognise the fact that your dog is safe and the dog 2 blocks down isnt,


I totally agree with this.You don't know.I have met many well trained dogs,but I have also met not so well trained dogs.And these are not the ones you want to meet off leash at all.The only off leash park I go to is the one that's on our SPCA property.All the dogs are very well trained.There has never been a scrap.They come when they are called.They all play well together.Do I agree having a unleashed dog where it calls for dogs to be leashed?No.And yes we do have leash laws and you can be fined.This fine also adds up if your dog has bit or attacked someone while off leash.I have been to a few calls where someone has been bitten by an unleashed dog.And what do I get from the owner,but officer,he's very well trained and never did this before.My response is,well it only takes one time.Or the jogger in the park who gets chased and his ankles bitten at.Or the child who is playing in the park on the swing and the unleashed dog jumps at her.I have had a few of these unleashed dogs come up to me not so friendly.Yeah,scared the poop out of me I tell you.

When I trained Yukon and Tron when they were pups,I used a 30' training lead.I did take them to the park for this.It was busy at times.But Tron was being trained for Police work and I needed him to get used to distractions.The different sites and sounds.Training the one made it actually easier to train the other.It took some work.And these were 2, 3 month old pups.But it paid off.

When I do take Tron for a walk to the leashed park,I still use the 30' lead.This way he can still have some freedom and run around a bit.And also did this when I had Yukon.

As for the child walking the dogs,I suggest you have a talk with the parents about this.And for those who are saying yes to her,they need their head examined.... :rolleyes:

Cactus Flower
April 12th, 2005, 04:53 PM
Sorry, but I also believe that everyone should have to adhere to the leash law, whether their dogs are well behaved or not. I would support any leash law within city limits (except of course designated off-leash parks).

Plenty of country roads/fields outside of town to let the dogs run free in.

Anyway, the bottom line is, the rules apply to everyone.

Prin
April 12th, 2005, 05:03 PM
I don't agree. I think that if you are responsible and you know your dogs will not react to anything badly, it's ok to off-leash. If I let my dogs off their leash or not doesn't change what others will do. Yes people walk dangerous dogs off leash but mine are not dangerous.

On the otherhand, if I am walking in the park off leash, like everyone does over here, I keep them away from non dog people (the park is big enough to be somewhere else) and I don't mind if other dogs come see us either. There is sort of an unwritten rule here that if your dog is off-leash, it is sociable. So you have to avoid contact with leashed dogs if you are off leash.

I hope I don't offend anybody, but some people thing that dogs are disgusting and horrible and although this woman may say some one else complained, it is probably her. If the other neighbors are warning you about the tickets, I wouldn't worry about how they feel. One loud woman's cries will soo fall to deaf ears...

LittleLoves
April 12th, 2005, 05:09 PM
I have to contribute to this discussion because I've been dealing with this issue for two years now. Sorry so long.

I live in a subdivision just outside a city. It's not exactly "country", but close. Anyhow, in our sub, at least 50 % of the dog owners do not leash their dogs when they are walking them, or when they are on their property. My next door neighbor has two large black standard poodles who are NEVER on a leash and DAILY use my yard as their personal toilet. :mad: :mad:

I run a home daycare. I take care of 3 and 4 year olds, and have 3 afterschoolers, as well as my own daughter. These children can not play outside because I cannot predict when those dogs will enter my property. I can't tie my dog outside on her line because the two will come over and sniff her, causing her to do backflips and bark in fear and agitation. We have politely asked him to leash his animals ("but they're very friendly) and explained that he is causing a lot of problems for my business. He agreed, and the very next day they were back and doing the same old thing. I've even called Animal Control (my last resort) and after a visit from them he STILL continues to do this.

Today, I dressed up the 3 year old and put my dog on a leash. We started out for a walk and as we got to the side of my neighbor's home, both dogs came barking and barrelling towards us. My dog flew into a frenzy (she is very afraid of them) and the little girl started crying. I was terrified!! :mad: I was screaming for the owner because if a dog fight broke out the child I was caring for could have been hurt. When he came out, the dogs returned to their property (very well-behaved right?) and he didn't even acknowledge the problem. I know that this is a BAD dog owner and slightly off the topic at hand, but the fact is the same..unleashed has the potential for problems.

I wholeheartedly feel that every single dog, well behaved or not, should be leashed at all times. We can't walk through our neighborhood without being approached by at least 7 dogs! I don't understand why my family and others should suffer or be afraid just because someone wants to unleash their dogs. They still get the same benefits from the walk with or without a leash so why not leash them? We are very responsible pet owners. I know that my dog is a people lover, but that doesn't mean that the woman down the street is a dog lover, or that the child across the road is gentle with animals. I'm afraid to walk in my own neighborhood. :(

Lissa
April 12th, 2005, 05:11 PM
I let my dog off-leash in the park when I know that can control him, if there is any doubt (in the form of a person, dog, squirrel, bird, food etc...) he goes on leash. I am constantly scanning in every direction and/or keeping a close eye on my dog's body language. Even if he has spotted a distraction before me, I can still stop him by watching him and getting a "head's up"! Also, if I am going to take him off-leash at a public park I make sure to go at the least busy times. The by-law officers rarely come around (I've seen 1 the whole 15 years I've lived here).

I think to let your dog off-leash you need to have him well-trained but just as important you need to know his "weaknesses" and understand his body language so you know what he's thinking (or about to do) before he does.

I have never had an incident where he's run-off or had people tell me that it is inappropriate for him to be off-leash. If I wasn't confident in my dog's training or listening skills then I wouldn't be letting him off-leash at the park.

nymph:I also live in Ottawa - the east end and there is quite a lot of "greenbelts" around my house, so I try to avoid taking my puppy off at the park and take him instead to the fields/forests. (I only make it to Conroy on the weekends and I have yet to go to Bruce Pit).

Cactus Flower
April 12th, 2005, 06:20 PM
LittleLoves, I feel for you.

I, too, had a problem with a neighbor's dog. He'd come into my yard, chew up our croquet set (among other things) and poop all over the place. All the "talking" in the world did not work, as his owner thought it was FUNNY.
Well, one day I scooped up about three pounds of his dog's poop and put it on his door step! Hey, it was his dog's poop, right? Far be it for me to be keeping it in my yard for him. I was just "returning" it, I told him.

Problem solved.

LittleLoves
April 12th, 2005, 06:33 PM
AHHH Cactus!! :thumbs up

I think I'll do just that! (right after I call in another complaint on him) ;)

happycats
April 12th, 2005, 07:19 PM
Cactus Flower, One of our neighbors dogs, always used our front yard as a toilet :yuck: I very nicely told him of the situation, his reply "oh well, a dogs gotta s*it don't it?", i said not on my lawn, he said "sue me"!! I was so angry :mad:. So from that day foward, I flung (with a shovel) his dogs poop, at his mini van and front door!!!! :evil: He caught me doing it one day and started yelling. I said I was just returning "his" property !! He yelled even more, so I replied "sue me" !! :D .
I havn't seen as much poop on my lawn since ;)

Cactus Flower
April 12th, 2005, 09:11 PM
*****APPLAUSE FOR HAPPYCATS***********

Good luck, LittleLoves!

twodogsandacat
April 12th, 2005, 09:42 PM
Cactus Flower, One of our neighbors dogs, always used our front yard as a toilet :yuck: I very nicely told him of the situation, his reply "oh well, a dogs gotta s*it don't it?", i said not on my lawn, he said "sue me"!! I was so angry :mad:. So from that day foward, I flung (with a shovel) his dogs poop, at his mini van and front door!!!! :evil: He caught me doing it one day and started yelling. I said I was just returning "his" property !! He yelled even more, so I replied "sue me" !! :D .
I havn't seen as much poop on my lawn since ;)

Reminds me of the Jim Carey film where he finally snaps at the neighbour who allows his Great Dane to poop on his lawn. Jim Carey walks next door, drops his pants and returns the favour in kind. It's funny.

On the other subject. I let my one dog off leash (Dalton). Never around kids and never around non dog people. Google has the hunter instinct and when the nose hits the ground the brain stops working..he stays on leash.

I do not allow Dalton to run up to onleash dogs and that is a peeve of mine. My dogs have never met yours before. If he is on leash then I would expect you to leash yours up too until we have at least talked. I can't count the times where we have had off leash dogs run up right into his face both in parks and on the road. Since the Shepherd jumped him he has been a little nervous around strange dogs..they don't belong in his face while he is leashed. I usally feed Google's leash out to distract the other dog.

I once watched in Ottawa as a man jogged up Elgin Street with his off leash dog at his heels. I was awestruck with the amazing control he had. The issue with it is that if he does it some idiots going to do it with a dog that should be on leash. Then dogs will scare the bejesus out of those afraid of dogs, dogs will be hit by cars and dogs will run up to other dogs. No in the city put the dog on a leash. Find some green space to let the dog off. When breaking the leash law the if a tree falls in a forest rule applies. If no one is around then no foul. If that off leash dog is around those not comfortable with off leash dogs then you are violating somebody else's rights. Some people are deathly afraid of dogs and if you don't know the whole story you can not judge. Now if my dog is on leash I have every right to be there so don't give me a hard time. You respect me and I'll respect you.

mandiez
April 13th, 2005, 07:20 AM
I wholeheartedly feel that every single dog, well behaved or not, should be leashed at all times. We can't walk through our neighborhood without being approached by at least 7 dogs! I don't understand why my family and others should suffer or be afraid just because someone wants to unleash their dogs. They still get the same benefits from the walk with or without a leash so why not leash them? :(

I absolutely think u are correct!!! I am a dog owner as well...and i get frustrated at unleashed dogs roaming where they please.

It's important to remember that each individual as their own needs and perception of things...and the only real way to look at this situation...is what is the best well being for society? A lot of people are allergic to dogs, afraid of dogs, or just don't like them. There should be no issues with keeping your dog on a leash. If you want them to roam free...do it in your backyard. We have these rules and guildlines for animals (especially dogs) for a reason...they aren't just there "just cuz."

I'm sorry you feel hurt, and you probably have great dogs (we all like to think so, LOL), but you really have to let this one go.

There are some battle we can fight, and others just aren't worth it. In my eyes...this one isn't one of those!!!

Toodles!

Mandi

LittleLoves
April 13th, 2005, 07:38 AM
Reminds me of the Jim Carey film where he finally snaps at the neighbour who allows his Great Dane to poop on his lawn. Jim Carey walks next door, drops his pants and returns the favour in kind. It's funny.


:evil: :evil:

While I wouldn't do that..LOL..I did threaten something else probably as infuriating. I said two months ago that the next time his two poodles came onto my property to have a poo, I was going to shave the words "GO" on the side of one, and "HOME" on the side of the other. I am a hairstylist by trade and have a very steady hand. MWAHAHA! :evil: ;)

heeler's rock!
April 13th, 2005, 10:09 AM
Thank you all for your responses! :) Sorry I wasn't on earlier to respond, but my home computer is broken, so I can only come on at work briefly.

Gazoo, I agree with you that in a city like Calgary, with so many open spaces, why should dogs have to be leashed everywhere they go? Also, my neighbourhood is VERY full of dogs. I mean, almost everyone owns a dog so I'm sure more people are for offleash than are against it. We have recently started a petition to get a dog park in the neighbourhood, but to no avail so far. Maybe if people keep complaining about offleash dogs, the city will take notice and realize we need a dog park! We do have 2 dog parks in our end of town, but they are quite a bit of a drive. Also, when we're off leash in the neighbourhood, we are training. We use the opportunity for distractions to teach sit, stay, come, stop, leave it, and so on.

The other thing to clear up too, is our dogs don't approach people or other dogs, unless allowed to do so by us. We've had offleash dogs go running through the pond to get to them to say hello! :p Their owner's aren't to pleased with them, but that's why they need to do more training. I think a lot of this just does stem from other people's irresponsibility with their own dogs, and that's why people are generally concerned. They don't realize that if I knew my dogs were viscious, in any way, I wouldn't have them off leash.

I think it's unfair to lump my offleash dogs into the same pile as everyone else's. We have worked VERY hard to get them to a level that is acceptable to be out off leash. They never wander to far from us, and the second we call them, they come back because they know if they don't they go on leash. If for any reason, we cannot get our dogs attention away from something and back to us, we leash them. There are no second chances. I can have my dogs sit across the street from our house, ask them to stay, go unlock and open my door, go inside and close the door, come out and they're still there, waiting for me to say it's okay to come inside! Both my 1 1/2 year old puppy's have excellent recalls, and thats because we have worked on it since we got them. My oldest doesn't even leave our side. We also take them to bike paths within dog parks and train them to sit stay while cyclists, runners, rollerbladers, etc. go by. They've never EVER chased anyone, jumped on people while out (they jump on people that come to visit, but we're working on it), ran after kids, or even stepped on other people's lawns. One of my biggest pet peeves are people who let their dogs run on other people's lawns, so I never let them do that. Now, they don't even try.

Most of you saying that all dogs, well behaved or not, should be leashed, have had bad experiences with offleash dogs. We do go to offleash parks, but how am I supposed to do any training there? There are no roads, and unruley dogs interupt all the time. We take them there to play, not train. A 30' lead is not offleash, so in my opinion, it doesn't count as offleash training my dogs. I will of course respect the laws and such, but trust me, when there are very few to no people around, they will go offleash. As for taking them out super early, I will start trying that, but I can't run with them as my husband usually does as I'm 4 months pregnant. He works nights and isn't home until around 6:40am so he usually takes them out then.

I don't want to upset neighbours, and I want to respect the laws and such, so we'll be more dilegent in keeping them on leash around people who are afraid, and only let them off when there are very few people around. Thanks for all your tips and such! :)

heeler's rock!
April 13th, 2005, 10:21 AM
Wow, didn't see this one.....

A lot of people are allergic to dogs

Then they shouldn't be outside where dogs even on leash are. Dander floats.

There should be no issues with keeping your dog on a leash

There aren't. I just didn't appreciate her comments and wasn't sure how to react.

If you want them to roam free...do it in your backyard

Incase you didn't read my post, I don't have a yard yet. They also do not "roam free". They're close by, and come when called. We don't let them loose in the field and pick them up later. :rolleyes:

We have these rules and guildlines for animals (especially dogs) for a reason...they aren't just there "just cuz."

I never said they were there "just cuz". I appreciate and respect the laws made, but first off, there are no signs posted around there that say no offleash dogs. There's one that says no swimming, but not one for no dogs. There are no dog related signs anywhere.

I'm sorry you feel hurt, and you probably have great dogs (we all like to think so, LOL), but you really have to let this one go.

I don't think so, I know so. Everyone comments on how well behaved they are. Even the woman complaining admitted our dogs are an exception. I'm not arguing with this lady, she has her points, but I also have mine. As I said, they will be leashed, but not at all times. We'll handle this situation just fine, and as far as I'm concerned, there's nothing to "let go" of, as I was never hurt by her comments, just unsure if it was right ot feel a bit upset when she had a good point. That's all.

I appreciate your thoughts on this, but you came across a bit rude so I'm feeling a bit defensive. Sorry if you didn't mean to sound that way.

Lucky Rescue
April 13th, 2005, 11:04 AM
I haven't read all the posts here, so sorry if I'm repeating something.

When I'm walking my dog (on leash at all times) and I see people with loose dogs in violation of the leash law, I get very angry. Dogs don't always come when they're called, and many times I've had loose dog rushing towards us, while the owners are yelling "Come!"

If one of these dogs were to get into a fight with my Chloe, they would lose and I would be blamed, although I'm not breaking any laws.

There are many places where I cannot now walk my dog, because people don't think the law applies to them for some reason.

heeler's rock!
April 13th, 2005, 11:23 AM
Okay. I'm feeling a little attacked here. We know a lot of people in our neighbourhood now, and they know our dogs. We only walk them offleash there by the pond, with the dozen's of other people walking their dogs offleash. I dont' like being lumped into a group with all other irresponsible dog owners out there. Our dogs do not charge at other dogs, and they do come when called. I too have issues with people that can't control their dogs offleash, and it too upsets me. I don't feel like the laws don't apply to me, but I do feel that my dogs are better offleash than on leash, and if they're not being unruley and even police officers don't mind them, then why should they be punished? Of course if we are ever asked to put them on leash (hasn't happened yet), or we feel something is unsafe, we do comply and put them on leash. I just feel like everyone thinks I'm making this stuff up about my dogs, but they really are as good as I say they are. I wouldn't be dumb enough to have them offleash if I wasn't completely sure I could control them. Also, it's the non dog owners complaining. We've never had an issue with other dogs or our dogs attacking. Again, we know almost all the dog owners in our area, and they're fine with it.

Lucky Rescue
April 13th, 2005, 11:44 AM
if they're not being unruley and even police officers don't mind them

No one is calling you irresponsible. If the police have no problem with this, and your dogs are 100% under control at all times (wouldn't even bolt after a rabbit) then you needn't worry.

I have no problem with unleashed dogs if they don't bother us, and if they are trained.

The people I"m talking about are the ones who think their dogs are trained and under control when they definitely are not.

While I"m ranting, I must say the people I hate the most are the ones who have uncontrolled barking dogs rushing at us, often across busy streets, and yell "It's o.k. - he's friendly!"

Yeah, but MINE IS NOT, nor are many other dogs!!! If you cannot control your dog, keep it on a leash!!

heeler's rock!
April 13th, 2005, 12:03 PM
I can agree with that. I feel the exact same way and people with misbehaved and poorly trained dogs should not have them off leash at all. I am 100% confident in our dogs, and know that even if there were a rabbit around, they wouldn't just bolt after it. Helix is starting to play deaf a bit, so he now stays on leash during the walks, until he earns the right to be offleash again.

I really can see people's points of view when it comes to offleash dogs, so I know this can be a touchy subject. Everyone has a right to be safe, and if I felt that my dogs were a threat to anyone, I'd keep them on leash all the time.

LL1
April 13th, 2005, 12:19 PM
By the same taken,if the law says the dogs should be leashed,why shouldn't yours be?I don't think it has to do with how well the dog behaves,it's what the law says.I'd suggest saving your money for a fence,or a drive to the off leash park.If your dogs are well trained,they should be able to work with distractions like other dogs running around and interrupting,and if not,that's a great goal to work towards.

heeler's rock!
April 13th, 2005, 12:29 PM
By the same taken,if the law says the dogs should be leashed,why shouldn't yours be?

I'm not saying my dogs are special and they're never leashed, I'm saying at a pond with huge greenspace, with other offleash dogs, we let them off. I don't see anything worng with that and we always keep them close.

I'd suggest saving your money for a fence,or a drive to the off leash park.

We are fencing this summer, but we still plan to walk them at the pond, offleash. We also can't go to the dog park everyday for them to run and play and get excercise.

If your dogs are well trained,they should be able to work with distractions like other dogs running around and interrupting,and if not,that's a great goal to work towards.

My dogs do listen well at dogs parks, but it's not fair to them to have them doing sit stays the whole time while they want to play. When we go to the dog park, they play. Also, at these parks, the dogs not only interrupt them, they interrupt me by jumping, sniffing, etc. We do sometimes go somewhere quieter in the dog parks to train, but during the summer, there are hundreds of dogs and owners at these parks so it's hard to even think, let alone do a lot of training.

happycats
April 13th, 2005, 12:37 PM
I see nothing wrong with having a dog off leash "IF" and only if the owner has 100% control at all times. when parks are "not" busy.

When I had a dog I always tried to go to the park when no one was there, and yes I did let her off leash!! and I also had 100% control over her at all times, and would always call her back if I saw anyone or anything! She was part BC and just loved and needed a good run! (sometimes I think she could fly, as it seemed her feet never touched the ground :angel: )

LL1
April 13th, 2005, 12:47 PM
Of course what you chose,and you can also get tickets for breaking the law.That was all I was pointing out.You can also practice sit stays inside your home,in your unfenced yard,and anywhere else you chose,and with distractions is even better.

Writing4Fun
April 13th, 2005, 12:48 PM
Sorry to disagree with you here, but if the area is not designated as an off-leash dog park, then dogs should be on-leash. It doesn't matter how many other people have their dogs off-leash, or how well-behaved your dogs are, it doesn't make it right. Sorry, but the law is the law. If you're speeding down the highway at 150km/hr because everyone else is going that fast, does that make it right? If everyone uses this area as an off-leash park, maybe you could rally these people together and petition city hall to turn it into an off-leash park. Offer to head a committee to keep the area clean and free of fecal waste, and to hold fund-raisers to pay for the fencing and trash cans. If the law isn't working for you, work to change it, but don't flout it in the mean time. But that's just my opinion... ;)

heeler's rock!
April 13th, 2005, 12:48 PM
She was part BC and just loved and needed a good run! (sometimes I think she could fly, as it seemed her feet never touched the ground )

That's so true! Kia, one of the pups, is full border collie and Helix, the other pup, is part border collie, mostly heeler. They are like lightning! I don't know how they'd react if we deprived them of their run, and driving to the dog park everyday is not an option, especially with a baby coming. We're just too busy lately with family gatherings to go far.

LL1
April 13th, 2005, 12:51 PM
I agree that would not be fair.You do sit stays the whole time you are offleash at the pond?That doesn't make sense.If your dogs are well trained,a 5-10 minute training refresher each time is no big deal,and then on to playtime.It does sound difficult to me.Or do the sit stays at home first and off you go,since you prefer doing it without other dogs distracting them or you.
My dogs do listen well at dogs parks, but it's not fair to them to have them doing sit stays the whole time while they want to play. When we go to the dog park, they play. Also, at these parks, the dogs not only interrupt them, they interrupt me by jumping, sniffing, etc. We do sometimes go somewhere quieter in the dog parks to train, but during the summer, there are hundreds of dogs and owners at these parks so it's hard to even think, let alone do a lot of training.

happycats
April 13th, 2005, 12:59 PM
They didn't have dog parks (none that I knew of anyway) back then :)
I know I was breaking the law, and I knew it was wrong, but felt I could call my dog back at anytime. I also took her to places that weren't busy, like the ravine, along the train tracks, and to a very large wooded park at 5:00am on a Sunday morning, to avoid other people and dogs.

nymph
April 13th, 2005, 01:00 PM
If the law isn't working for you, work to change it, but don't flout it in the mean time. But that's just my opinion... ;)

This is my view as well.

heeler's rock!
April 13th, 2005, 02:49 PM
I agree that would not be fair.You do sit stays the whole time you are offleash at the pond?That doesn't make sense.If your dogs are well trained,a 5-10 minute training refresher each time is no big deal,and then on to playtime.It does sound difficult to me.Or do the sit stays at home first and off you go,since you prefer doing it without other dogs distracting them or you.

You don't read very well, do you? I said I don't like MANY distractions like hundreds of offleash dogs, people, and kids running up to my dogs. I do training everywhere, including offleash parks, but our area is easily accessible and there are the right amount of distractions. No, our dogs do not just sit stay the whole time at the pond, they do run and play, but I take any opportunity to train them. My whole point for training outside instead of in my house is FOR THE DISTRACTIONS. If you don't understand that summer at dog parks is insanely busy, then thats not my problem.

Look, I am done with this thread. I don't like being judged or harped on for asking a simple question. I agree with people that think this board has become waaaaaay to judgemental. I will continue to keep my dogs offleash where I see fit, and if I get tickets for doing so, so be it. Instead of helping me, you all became way to involved and I will seek answers elsewhere. You're all entitled to your opinions, and I agree that they are valid, but when you're rude about it, you cross the line between being helpful and condescending. :mad:

LL1
April 13th, 2005, 03:05 PM
I was not rude or condescending.You are the only one who has been heated in this whole topic.If you don't want to hear differing opinions,or advice,or get annoyed when others disagree,I don't know why you started the topic in the first place.

heeler's rock!
April 13th, 2005, 03:16 PM
Maybe you should go back and read your comments LL1. They came accross rude and very condescending. I know it's hard to judge people's tone across the internet, but you did sound rude.

I wasn't upset until everyone started treating me like I have bad dogs and just want to make them sound better than they are and such. I know the laws and what I can and can't do, but does everyone follow every law all the time? So, you've never EVER sped? Or washed your car in your driveway? Or even failed to stop for a pedestrian because you didn't notice them waiting at the corner?? Gimmie a break! I started this topic obviously to get opinions, not critiscism. No one needs to worry about my unfenced yard, or anything like that. Even if my yard was fenced in, I wouldn't just dump them out there all day long. I'd still walk them. Anyways, I just wanted opinions and boy did I get those! As I said, they will be leashed until we get to the pond. When at the pond if there are lots of people and kids, they will remain leashed. If not, they will go offleash. End of discussion.

LL1
April 13th, 2005, 03:20 PM
Actually no I haven't done any of those things.And I didn't see anyone imply you had dogs,where on earth did you get that from?

heeler's rock!
April 13th, 2005, 03:22 PM
When people against offleash dogs said that they don't like offleash dogs running up to their leashed dogs and so on. No one said that they thought my dogs were like that, but they got lumped together with the offleash dogs.

GWPsRock
April 13th, 2005, 03:26 PM
I don't think LL1 was being rude.

I started this topic obviously to get opinions, not critiscism.

I think you have been getting tons of opinions, but, it appears as though you don't like the opinion.....

As for the laws being in place....unfortunately, they are there, and if you aren't following them, then, you have to face the consequences of people approaching you for not following them. I would be saying the same thing if you had "bad" dogs or great dogs.....

Just because your dogs are great (and they sound wonderful), doesn't mean that everyone's are....so, why should you just get to break the law?

Quick comparison....

I LOVED sunflower seeds when I was in high school. They were banned at my school because most kids made a mess out of them. I would sneak some in once in awhile and would made sure that I didn't get caught. HOWEVER, if I had been caught, I knew that I was in the wrong. AND, had anyone else had them and had made a mess, I was risking being "lumped" into the people in the wrong.....

Dukieboy
April 13th, 2005, 03:30 PM
Here is my two cents. I feel absolutely horrible having to walk by the park around the corner from my house to see all the little doggies off leash. I don't bring Duke in because the dogs aren't leashed and may run up to Duke much to the horror of thier owners. It such a big freakin production. When I have brought him into the park they all scurry to put the leashes on the dogs. If everyone would just obey the law, we could all use the park equally. :( There are off leash parks so I really think folks should use them and leash thier dogs where required by law.

heeler's rock!
April 13th, 2005, 03:43 PM
That's great that you don't think LL1 was being rude. I do. I appreciate the opinions I'm getting and that's why my second post thanked everyone for their comments. When people get rude, I don't like it. Would you like it? If someone thought I was being rude, I would appologize if that was not my intent. I would not sit there arguing with them about it.

I understand that there are consequenses for my actions, and that's why if I choose to continue having my dogs off leash, I will pay the price if need be. As for starting a dog park, a petition is already in place and it's been in place for over a year now. City Council is reviewing still I believe, so hopefully one will come about soon. I again thank everyone for their comments and opinions, especially those who were nice about their opposing views. It's given me a lot to think about.

I also want to clear up that I never thought my dogs should get to break the law. If I get fined for having them offleash, I will pay for it. If I am asked to put them on leash I will, no questions asked. I just want to go out and have fun with my dogs. I don't want people to think I'm trying to get an exemption to the laws, as I'm not. I just wanted to see if I should have been offended when this lady went off about offleash dogs. I can handle people being nice and polite about things, but I hate people that nag or yell like that lady did. There's no need for that and that's why I was upset. I understand her point and it's completely warrented, but getting angry doesn't help any situation! I will have a talk with my hubby and see what we decide to do. If I ever get a fine, I will not come complaining as it's my own fault. I can deal with that.

heeler's rock!
April 13th, 2005, 03:45 PM
Here is my two cents. I feel absolutely horrible having to walk by the park around the corner from my house to see all the little doggies off leash. I don't bring Duke in because the dogs aren't leashed and may run up to Duke much to the horror of thier owners. It such a big freakin production. When I have brought him into the park they all scurry to put the leashes on the dogs. If everyone would just obey the law, we could all use the park equally. There are off leash parks so I really think folks should use them and leash thier dogs where required by law.

Nicely put Dukieboy, and I appreciate that. Thank you for your input. :)

Cactus Flower
April 13th, 2005, 03:49 PM
Whoah. I agree that LL1 was not being rude, and I was very surprised by Heeler's reaction.

I was surprised because she is typically very cool-headed, balanced and open minded. Can we let her track record speak for itself, and chalk this up to someone maybe having an extra-sensitive day? Haven't we all had those (I know I have)?

heeler's rock!
April 13th, 2005, 03:57 PM
Whoah. I agree that LL1 was not being rude, and I was very surprised by Heeler's reaction. I was surprised because she is typically very cool-headed, balanced and open minded. Can we let her track record speak for itself, and chalk this up to someone maybe having an extra-sensitive day? Haven't we all had those (I know I have)?

Well, since I am the only one who thought LL1 was being rude, maybe I'm in the wrong. I owe you an appology LL1, and I'm sorry for being so sensitive. My hormones are outta whack and I don't want to make excuses, but I think being 4 months pregnant may have something to do with it. Can we just start over? I promise to take anything said with a grain of salt. I really do appreciate the feedback I'm getting and don't want anyone to think I don't. Again, I'm sorry for my attitude. :o

Cactus Flower
April 13th, 2005, 04:00 PM
*************APPLAUSE********Throwing roses***********

See? :)


Didn't know you are pregnant! I need to search some threads, as that's a BIG something I missed!

Congratulations!!!!

heeler's rock!
April 13th, 2005, 04:27 PM
Thanks Cactus. :o

I'm really hoping I didn't scare people off! I'm just trying to be less emotional and more objective. LL1, I do hope you accept my appology. I know you are all trying to tell me the best possible solution, which is to of course, keep my dogs on leash. I appreciate your concern for me. :o

nymph
April 13th, 2005, 04:33 PM
heelers rock! One thing you can always count on from this forum is honesty. People would give you an honest answer, regardless of whether you like it or not. However it's refreshing to see one problem from different angles, isn't it?

heeler's rock!
April 13th, 2005, 04:36 PM
heelers rock! One thing you can always count on from this forum is honesty. People would give you an honest answer, regardless of whether you like it or not. However it's refreshing to see one problem from different angles, isn't it?

Agreed. I know this boards member's are sometime brutally honest, and Lord knows I've been brutally honest in the past to. It's just hard to be on the receiving end sometimes. But I came here for advice, and that's what I got. Can't complain! :)

It is nice to see different takes on the same situation. I can appreciate that about this board too.

kandy
April 13th, 2005, 04:44 PM
Just to let you know that the leash laws in my town (Green River, Wyoming) are a little different. It actually states that a dog should be on leash or "under direct control". The cops here won't hesitate to give you a ticket for an unleashed dog if it is running 1/2 mile ahead of you or if you obviously don't have control over it. However, if they see that the dog heels, and is under your control, they will leave you to your walk. This also applies to all our parks (we don't have any dog parks - leashed or not). Perhaps you could try to have your local legislators modify the leash law? I know that irresponsible people will still let their unruly dogs off leash, law or no law, but it might be food for thought. :rolleyes:

melanie
April 13th, 2005, 04:57 PM
i dont mind nice, well mannered ploite dogs walking off leash, as long as they are friendly and under control i dont care, and it is nice to have a meet and greet in the street (what a rhymer) with a strange dog, its good for the girls social skills, as long as their friendly. (if an offleash dog attacks us it will meet my boot in a big way, that is really unfair).

my only issue is safety- last year a young couple were walking their dogs off leash (harldy any traffic most of time here), they are realyl nice and good owners. they had a little staffie, a cattle dog and a little ****zu. whilst walking two big hunting dogs set upon them and were very vicious in the attack. well the dogs were all fighting and the little shizu got scared, the little one backed out onto the road jsut as a car came, the car tried to avoid the dog (killed it) and hit a power pole injuring the driver. it was the fear and the busyness of the scene (owners distracted) that caused the incedent. if the little one was on leash it may not have gone on the road unnoticed.

thats the big one for me, i have a dog that i cant walk unleased (she gets too distracted and we would be sniffing oneflower for hours) which is a bit of a bummer but at least with her leash i can hurry her up, which is really necesary when she gets sniffin something. :D

Prin
April 13th, 2005, 06:35 PM
I don't get it. I would never have thought that everyone felt so strongly against walking off-leash. Maybe it's against the law, but so are a lot of things that everyone does without even thinking. Like driving with your doors unlocked. That's illegal. How many people lock their doors while they are driving (and I'm not talking about the cars that do it automatically)? I know that 2/3 of Canadians have done something illegal that carries a penalty much worse than walking your dog off-leash. And speeding? You don't have to be going 150km/h to be speeding. 101 is enough and how many do that? They couldn't use photo radar in Quebec because it nails only the top 15% of speeders and everybody in Quebec was driving way to fast for it to even make a difference.

I have walked my dogs tons of times in front of the police off-leash, or after hours in the park. Yes, everybody does it here, and the cops don't say a word. We got a petition signed here 4 years ago to open a dog park and the city said no. They didn't want to give up the property, so I guess in turn, we get more lenient enforcement...

babyrocky1
April 13th, 2005, 07:13 PM
I think Dukie boys post hit home the most for me, there are three parks close to us and I walk Rocky, on lead, beside all of them. All of the dogs are off leash and playing. Because of Rockys breed, the other owners would go nuts if I ever thought of letting Rocky off leash to play! When theyre all gone, around midnight ,I take Rocky to one of the parks, one were i can see every direction and play Kong with him, off leash ofcourse! He needs tons of ecercise and walking him just wont do it! So yes I break the law, not as much as the other folks around here but I am guilty of it too. I think it depends on the culture of the neighborhood. people have had there dogs off leash in the park here for years and I dont think theres many complaints. They dont have the dogs out when the kids are getting out of school etc. they do seem to be considerate of others, so as much as I dont like there attitude towards my dog, they dont seem to be doing any harm. Police go by constantly on horses, bikes, boats and cars. They couldnt care less. There are a few people in our neighourhood that I always have to watch for, they have large breed dogs and let them go way before they actually enter the park. The dogs seem to dart out from nowhere and the owners are out of sight. Now that makes me mad! And yes they say there dogs are friendly but why should I have to supervise there so called friendly dogs as well as my own. Off leash some times yes sometimes no!

Beetlecat
April 13th, 2005, 07:17 PM
I don't think people are against off leash walking persay, but with *rude* off leash dogs. We have all met them, and all dislike them.

Unfortunatly, this thread has been hijacked from Heeler's Rock!'s original question and gotten somewhat hostile. It's not a reflection upon Heeler's Rock, but general ranting against rude dogs.

Off leash dogs is a touchy subject. It's a sad fact of life that many, many dog owners have rude dogs and think that it's okay, because they can't understand that other people might not love their baby as much as they do.

heeler's rock!
April 13th, 2005, 07:48 PM
I know Prin, I didn't expect this kind of reactioneither, but it's all good! :) People love their dogs, and I can see why it's better safe than sorry. Heaven forbid my dogs would be attacked by another dog, or my baby be attacked when he/she comes along! I can see their points, but I also don't see it as a huge problem. It's not even a full law, it's a bylaw and sometimes it's hard not to break it when the pups wanna run and play so badly. We will be more cautious now though as we don't want to upset any neighbours. :o

Sneaky2006
April 13th, 2005, 08:11 PM
Hey Heeler's... I just want to say that everyone has had a bad day once in a while, and God only knows what hormones will do to ya. Don't sweat the tude, given or taken ;)

Sorry, don't have any advice about the dog parks... I don't even know if we have them here!

Lizzie
April 13th, 2005, 08:24 PM
On one front I have to echo what Lucky said---all dogs should be leashed to ensure that your dog, and all other dogs, are void of false accusations. Out of love and protection, IMHO all dogs should be leased. I realize this goes against the grain for many people as there is a general feeling that giving your dog total freedom to roam is out of love, but in today's day and age I feel it is most important for everyone to keep their dogs leashed to ensure their safety and protection.

On another front, I have to agree, I get very nervous around unleashed dogs of any size---even puppies as they tend to jump and usually end up putting pulls in my work clothes!! :p Simple things like startling noises, squirrels, chipmunks, other dogs, etc can startle dogs---even the best trained dogs. Just like humans, sometimes dogs may flipout, make mistakes, etc...however unlike humans, dogs will be punished far worse than a human.

Anyways, I'm not sure if I explained myself very well here. I am in no way implying that any of you have poorly trained dogs or that you do not love your dogs. Just the contrary.

CyberKitten
April 13th, 2005, 08:45 PM
I was not ging to post here - not having a dog at present. (And I've only read the last page sooo, lol) BUT I do dogsit my fav chocolate lab from time to time and I always have him on a leash. There are no specific dog parks here and I do consider it very rude of others to not leash their dogs - if as was noted, the dog is rude. Another no bad dogs but bad "owners" notion I guess.

Fortunately tho, I own a woodlot and have a road on it where we can walk without worrying about anyone saying anything. It is my land and if I want to walk my "nephew dog" without his leash on my property, I will. I do not want anyone else to do so without my permission though!! My bunny is buried there so I do visit the place quite often in the summer. I guess I have just always thought it was a matter of simple politeness and good manners. If I walk the dog in a public place, park or not, he should be leashed - he is a kind wonderful dog who would never attack anyone or any other animal but I do not want him accidentally jumping on a small child or even getting hurt himself.

I also agree with the comment that "If the law isn't working for you, work to change it, but don't flout it in the mean time." I always believed some of my patients should legally be able to be prescribed marijuana to help their nasuea and pain - if they were over 18 or if they had parental consent. After many years of hard work, I can now do just that. But I would never had given them the medication before this.

And yes, I have probably gone past the speed limit on occasion but there is a reason for the law and I observe it most of the time. I know the law exists for a reason. The same is true of offleash dogs who are rude and may hurt "my" dog. Or if I were to allow my dog to run free and create problems. We all think our babies are flawless angels but accidents happen! I'd like to see stats on these leash laws - why they were implented, by who, when, are they effective? That would greatly help me. For now, when I am labsitting ,I'll continue to be polite and ensure G is on his leash in those areas where that is required and on my own property, he can roam freely and at will. (He always makes for the river on my land and the pool at home, sigh!! Typical lab, lol)

nymph
April 13th, 2005, 10:02 PM
Kandy: in the City of Ottawa, the bylaw states such:

"RUNNING AT LARGE

9. For the purposes of this by-law, a dog shall be deemed to be running at large if found in any place other than the premises of the dog and not under the control of any person.

10. No owner of a dog shall permit the dog to run at large in the City.

11. Every owner of a dog shall ensure that the dog is kept on a leash and under the control of some person when the dog is on any land in the City unless:
(a) the land is the premises of the owner of the dog,
(b) the land is owned by a person who has given prior consent to the dog being off the leash, or
(c) the land is parkland that is:
(i) owned by the City, and
(ii) not designated by sign as an area where dogs are prohibited.

12. Despite clause (c) of Section 11, in the case of parkland that is,
(a) owned by the City, and
(b) designated by sign as an area where dogs are required to be kept on the leash,

every owner of a dog shall ensure that the dog is kept on a leash and under the control of some person when the dog is in the area designated by sign.

13. No owner of a dog shall permit the dog to be off leash in contravention of Section 11.

14. No owner of a dog shall permit the dog to be off leash in contravention of Section 12.

15. No owner of a dog shall use on a dog a leash that exceeds three metres (3 m) in length.

16. No owner of a dog shall control a dog by means of a leash that:
(a) is not held by the person in his or her hand, or
(b) is not securely affixed to some immovable structure from which the dog cannot escape.

17. Sections 7 to 16 inclusive shall not apply to police working dogs, during the course of fulfilling their duties."

Dogs found running at large could be impounded and one day impoundment per pet is $35.

Full bylaw is found here: http://ottawa.ca/city_services/bylaws/municipal_bylaws/animal/april_1_en.pdf

nymph
April 13th, 2005, 10:07 PM
Ottawa is one of the MOST pet-unfriendly cities in Canada! :mad:

Gazoo
April 13th, 2005, 10:20 PM
Ottawa is one of the MOST pet-unfriendly cities in Canada! :mad:


No kidding, thats a pretty onerous looking document.

Bylaws are nice and all but they don't apply to all people in all situations at all places, at all times in a city.

I mean I can appreciate the intent of bylaws and all but...well.......in a perfect world.......

......a frog would have wings so it doesn't bump it's ass when it hops!!!

I'm in Calgary and on a -28 day in the middle of a big public area, when it's just me and my doogies and there is no-one around and won't be till the next chinook....well.........bylaws be damned. :D

Prin
April 13th, 2005, 10:51 PM
Actually, I think St-Laurent (montreal suburb) is pretty bad too. You're not allowed bringing your dog into parks period. On leash or off. It's a nice city but I would never live in it... I think the only place your dog can go is on the sidewalk...

Writing4Fun
April 14th, 2005, 08:38 AM
I think most big cities are like that. The ones with dog parks are few and far between. Most of their land is being gobbled up by developers, and the little bits of green space they have left are usually designated as park areas for children, so I can see why they wouldn't want dogs in there. By-laws are written because of people who don't respect others. We may all pick up after our dogs, but there are those who don't. The city officials have no way of telling who these people are, so we all pay the price. The same goes for leash laws. We may all have friendly, well-socialized, well-trained pups and know how to handle them, but there are those who don't (and couldn't care less), so we all have to suffer for it. Does anyone remember a time when we didn't need laws to compensate for those without common sense?? :(

Schwinn
April 14th, 2005, 10:12 AM
Or washed your car in your driveway?
Like driving with your doors unlocked. That's illegal. How many people lock their doors while they are driving

I'm going to apologize right now for thread-jacking, but I've never heard of these being illegal (that could be because I live in Ontario). The car wash thing may be a city by-law, and I KNOW that the locked door thing isn't a law in Ontario. Sorry again for the thread-jack, but I'm intrigued...

As for the off-leash thing, I get perturbed when I see people with thier dogs off-leash where they shouldn't be. I think most owners of pitbulls and "targetted" dogs can agree with me on this one. I get bothered because we've had some little ill-behaved, off-leash dog attack our on-leash dog, and been blamed for having "that kind of dog". And we know that if our dog was off-leash, no matter how well-behaved, someone would raise a ruckus. It's a matter of it being unfair. That being said, after reading this thread, I've realized that I need to be a little more tolerant. If the dog is well-behaved and under control, I shouldn't be so cheesed off about it. It was the comment about speeding. If I'm going down the highway, and someone passes me at 150 km, that doesn't bother me if they aren't cutting people off, riding the person's bumper, etc. In other words, they are fully aware of what is going on around them, and adjust thier speed when they need to. But when I see someone doing 125 km, weaving in and out, and driving like an idiot, that's the one I get ticked off at.

heeler's rock!
April 14th, 2005, 10:39 AM
Yeah, I believe it's a by-law to not wash your car in your driveway. The run off from the car, including soap and such goes directly back into the river, polluting it. It all runs into the sewers and that water doesn't get treated at the water treatment plants, so it just pollutes the rivers.

I too have never heard of driving with unlocked doors, but each city has different by-laws and such.

Nymph, thanks for postig Ontario's dog leash law, but I'm in Calgary so it doesn't help me much. I also know there is a leash by-law here, but just not following it too well. :o

Cactus Flower
April 14th, 2005, 11:20 AM
I don't think it matters how well behaved your dog is. Doo doo occurs.
If we could count on being able to control our dogs 100% of the time, there would never be an occasion of a dog maybe chasing a squirrel and accidentally getting hit by a car, or a dog accidentally knocking over a child, or a dog ending up attacking or being attacked....etc etc ad infinitum.

I think I "know" that Raj would stay by my side every step of the way if I let go of her harness in public. I've seen cats run across our path while walking, little dogs dashing out to nip her, all sorts of distractions. And she just looks at me for some signal as to what she should do. Still, I keep hold of her harness no matter what (she's so tall I don't need a leash, I just hold the back of her harness and she walks right next to me- I do bring a long leash along for when she needs to potty, though).

A friend of mine was letting her unleashed VERY well-behaved dog out for a run once. In a park. No one around that she could see. She stopped to tie her shoe, and in the middle of it heard her dog yelp/snarl. Turns out there were some teenagers in the bushes doing God-Knows-What, and they grabbed her dogs tail as he was sniffing the bushes. Thought it was real funny. But the dog was startled and bit blindly- catching one teen between thumb and index finger. Guess who got cited for offleash and dog bite?
The only thing that saved her dog from being euthanized was the fact that the teens grabbed that dogs tail.

Eleni
April 14th, 2005, 11:29 AM
see thats what makes me worry.

I have 3 young children 2 of wich run arounf the park with me and Play

Id never being my kids to a dog park because they need supervision even with my dog.

I watch them like a hawk even with sammy who I know would never intentionally hurt them.

but thigns do happen, whats to say my 2 year old despite being told no wont grab a dog before i pull my son away, it happens.

if a dog is onleash id at least know if the dog were to react i any way to my child the owner would control the dog, as well as id control my son of course


Eleni

Natasa
April 14th, 2005, 11:36 AM
I don’t think its ever okay to walk them off leash on the street. I can maybe be okay with letting them off leash in an on leash park as long as no one is around. BUT when they see me (for example) with my leashed dog, I do want to see other dogs on leash and under control. Really, majority of dogs out there are NOT trained not to approach other dogs. I don’t really care how “friendly” they are or that they “won’t get too close”. I want my dogs to walk in peace without other dogs that “won’t get too close” harassing them. I want to walk in peace without worrying about it.

I can barely walk one of my dogs in my neighborhood lately, because its full of “friendly, well trained” off leash dogs whose owners feel its their right to have them off leash because other people break laws too.
I don’t understand what all this speeding, door locking, car washing comparisons have to do with unleashed dogs? Does that mean that because someone breaks one law its okay to break the other ones? If my neighbor washes his car in his driveway I can have my dogs run around off leash, because if he is breaking the law, why couldn’t I do the same thing?

Writing4Fun
April 14th, 2005, 12:15 PM
I don’t understand what all this speeding, door locking, car washing comparisons have to do with unleashed dogs?
Natasa, we're using them as comparisons. For example: If half the people on the road are speeding, does that make it ok for everyone else to speed? No, right? So, if half the people in a park are walking their dogs off-leash in an on-leash area, does that make it ok for everyone else to let their dogs off-leash? That's where the comparisons were going. I wasn't saying that if I speed, then it's ok to let your dog off-leash. Hope this clarifies things a little. ;)

heeler's rock!
April 14th, 2005, 12:35 PM
It's also to compare the fact that not everybody follows every law and by-law all the time. That's where I was going with it.

Also, if a dog is on leash, it still doesn't mean the owner has full control. For example, my sister in law was walking their malamute in the park on leash, when he decided he wanted to chase something. He dragged her on her a$$ like 30 feet and stopped just short of the cement pathway. If he didn't want to stop, there's nothing she could have done about it. Oh, and she couldn't let go of the leash because it was around her waist as that's how we all do training. She's almost 24 and is more than responsible, but she still didn't have control of the dog.

To me, there's no safety in either choice really. Dogs on leash are just as much a threat if the owner has no control. I can't even tell you how many dogs I see pulling their owners to get to where they wanna go.

Writing4Fun
April 14th, 2005, 01:14 PM
It's also to compare the fact that not everybody follows every law and by-law all the time.
Granted, but they're still breaking the law.

Another little story - neighbors down the road have a Sheltie. They walk him later at night than most people so no one is around when they're out, and they always have him off-leash. He's a sweet dog, relatively well-behaved and always friendly towards us whenever we happen to meet. One night, we happened to pull into our driveway just as they were walking by, so they stopped to chat for a minute. Our then 4-yr-old son got out of the car and started running around. The dog got excited and started nipping and barking at my son. The owner of the dog got mad at my son for exciting his dog. Now, I didn't tell him at that moment what I thought of his actions, I just took my son inside to avoid a potential incident. However, I think I would have been well within my rights to demand that he put his dog on a leash. Would he then have the right to complain about my behaviour?

I've also had the unfortunate opportunity to meet young girls walking large dogs on-leash over whom they have absolutely no control. You're right, it is very dangerous, but it obviously isn't as big an issue as off-leash dogs, or they would have written a by-law for it (wait for it, though, I'm sure it's on its way - again, my pet peeve about the government trying to legislate common sense). ;)

Lucky Rescue
April 14th, 2005, 01:52 PM
"Lots of people do it" won't be accepted as a defense if you get ticketed or taken to court for breaking the law. :p

No dog who is off leash is 100% under control, no matter how well trained. Dogs, as feeling beings, are subject to impulses that can result in unpleasant consequences.

I learned this with my last dog, who was often off leash. His behavior was perfect at all times. When he was 7 years old, he decided to bolt into the street after a Dobie being walked. He never EVER did this before and I could have sworn he would never do it. But he did. Luckily nothing happened, but I learned a lesson and I got off easy.

heeler's rock!
April 14th, 2005, 01:54 PM
Granted, you have some good points. First off, if my dogs did that to a little kid, I would be yelling at my dogs, not you or your child. Then I would appologize profusely and take them home. This guy was completely in the wrong.

Secondly, my sister in law is not a young girl, she's my age and she's trying desperately to train the malamute so he doesn't get euthanized. I do agree that young girls or boys should not be walking any dog alone. That is completely irresponsible of the parents. Even people with medium sized dogs like a border collie or even mixed breeds often have quite the time trying to control their dogs from wanting to get to something.

Granted, but they're still breaking the law.

That's true. I am also well aware when I have my dogs offleash that I too am breaking the law.

When this woman approached Carlos, it wasn't because our dogs had done anything wrong. She just targeted him because they were offleash. As I've said before, I have no problems keeping my dogs on leash if someone asks me too, but I will not tolerate yelling at me, Carlos, or my dogs if they have done nothing wrong. I would still comply, but not until after I gave them a piece of my mind for yelling for no good reason. ;)

I have unfortunately gotten even dirty looks from people with young kids at the dog parks. Once, when my border collie was still pretty young, she jumped on a girl in the park wanting to give her kisses. The girl started crying and the dad grabbed her and gave me the most horrible look! They didn't even have a dog with them, so I have no clue why they were even there! Kia was only like 3 months at the time, and we were still training. It was really upsetting.

Natasa
April 14th, 2005, 01:55 PM
I actually did understand what some were trying to say, but to me it sounded like they were trying to make excuses (other people break laws too) and were using poor examples to prove their point and justify their actions. The point is that some people walk their dogs off leash or speed or whatever else, and it still doesn’t make it okay to do so.

Anyway, people will do what they want to do. And I’ll do what I have to do to protect my dogs from off leash dogs running up to us wanting to say “hi”.

heeler's rock!
April 14th, 2005, 01:56 PM
"Lots of people do it" won't be accepted as a defense if you get ticketed or taken to court for breaking the law.

Lucky, I think if I were to use that defense, I should be locked up for life!! :p ANyone trying to use that defense needs their heads examined. I know that I am breaking the law when I take them off leash to the pond, but if I were to get caught, the last thing I would do would be argue. :o

heeler's rock!
April 14th, 2005, 02:00 PM
The other thing about the pond we go to, it's usually quite calm, but it's hard to say with the weather getting warmer how long it'll stay that way. Not many dogs, and if there are they're on the other side far away, and I wouldn't even consider having them offleash when it's crowded. In those instances we drive to the field about 10 minutes away to let them have a run. We also know most of the dog owners and they're not the ones complaining, the people without dogs are.

heeler's rock!
April 14th, 2005, 02:02 PM
but to me it sounded like they were trying to make excuses (other people break laws too) and were using poor examples to prove their point and justify their actions.

Why would I make excuses when I've admitted repeatedly that I know I'm breaking the law, and that I would face any consequenses handed to me for my actions? That would be pretty silly of me. :)

Lucky Rescue
April 14th, 2005, 02:15 PM
Another important point has to do with the times we live in. In the "olden days" when I was very young, people were not shocked or horrified when dogs did "doggie" things, like chase cats or even cars, bark, get in fights with other dogs, growl or even bite. No one liked it, but no one expected a dog to be killed for chasing or even attacking a cat, because we realized these are things dogs do.

Nowadays, if your dog is not a benevolent Care Bear/Disney type creature, who never EVER is less than perfectly behaved and perfectly sweet no matter what, you will have problems.

I think it's nuts, but that is really the way it is. :rolleyes: Sadly, we must protect our dogs from an increasingly anti-dog and insanely PC world.

mona_b
April 14th, 2005, 06:00 PM
"Lots of people do it"

Now how many times have I heard this one........LOL

Lizzie
April 14th, 2005, 06:28 PM
I have to agree with everyone in favour of leashing your dogs. I think someone already said it, but it's sort of rude and insensitive to keep them off leash. Just because you say you KNOW their behaviour does not mean that everyone else should assume that they are perfectly trained as well.

As far as defending yourself---there is really no point. There is no defense other than "I'm doing it because I want to." That goes for most things people do that are against the law. Comparing is useless as the impact of washing your car on your driveway is far less than what happens to "some" people or "some" dogs when they are off leash, under certain circumstances.

I disagree with it personally and would never allow any animal of mine to be off leash in public, shared spaces...but that's just me. In my own yard, where I have sole run of the property then yes. But in shared spaces, it's most neighbourly to follow the rules.

CyberKitten
April 14th, 2005, 06:46 PM
I do not want to duplicate what I have already said but I agree with Lizzie. I am an ardent animal rights person who loves almost every animal I have ever met (There are always exceptions to every rule and here I refer to the few dogs who may have chased me, tried to bite me, or otherwise harassed me as a child. We had a family who had the dog from hell in my neighbourhood and he ran wild. The dog's owner held a key position in city govt so complaints would have been fruitless. The dog seemed fine with his family but with others when they were not around, he was terifying!) Those experiences stay with you and so when I see a dog -especially a large dog, even a lab, offleash, I have to admit that I am momentariily concerned. 99% of the time, the dog is fine and s/he is a kind, wonderful animal. But how do I know that? I like to pet animals and always ask first and have never had any probs that way.

And I really think if I, a consumate cat/rabbit/dog person - can be concerned in seeing an offleash dog, how do people who are scared of dogs, do not care about them one way or the other or even dislike them feel about an unleashed dog. A stranger has no way of knowing if your dog is fine. The lab I walk is a kind, wonderful "big baby" kind of dog but how does a child or even adult who is afraid of dogs know that. The most polite and kind action I can take is to make sure he on his leash when I walk him. So I do!

mona_b
April 14th, 2005, 08:24 PM
Ok,I'm still scratching my head about it being illegal to drive with your doors unlocked.Is this written anywhere?

I have to also agree with what has been said about those people who are afraid of dogs.I do think that it needs to be taken into consideration.And there are children who too are afraid.It's one thing if you have your dog in an offleash park and these people do come into it.But it's another if you have your dog in a non offleash park.I really hope that made sense.LOL

Tron is a VERY well trained dog.He is amazing off the leash.His commands where taught to him in German.This being because of his Police training.I cannot count the number of times I have had him on the leash and have dogs not on a leash come for him.When he was working with my brother,he was attacked.Thank goodness it wasn't serious.But it could have been.The owner was charged.If I don't take him to the offleash park at our SPCA,and we do go to a park where the dogs MUST be leashed,then I will use his 30' lead.This way he can still run around and is able to have his fun..... :) ...And Yukon was also VERY well trained.

Laws are laws....Just remember that.If you don't get caught the first or second time,doesn't mean you wont on the third time. :)

CyberKitten
April 14th, 2005, 09:57 PM
I have never heard of that either and asked a Law Prof at McGill who also questioned where I heard that. It may be some urban legend in Mtl?

heeler's rock!
April 15th, 2005, 07:44 AM
OMG, I am so sorry to upset soooooo many people with bringing up my off leash dogs. I talked to my husband about all this last night and he said 80% of the time when the dogs go to the pond, no one is there at all. The other 20%, there may be a few people there, but they're waaaaaay on the other side of it and heading the opposite direction. He's been doing most of the walking lately, and we never go in the middle of the day when there's tons of people. We usually go to a field or to the dog park if we go in the middle of the day.

Again, my washing your car in the driveway comparison was in no way to say that just because people do that, I can have my dogs off leash. It also was not to say that washing a car in a driveway is more harmful or just as harmful to people as my dogs being off leash. During the summer, almost every driveway has a car being washed in it, and all I'm saying is that not everyone follows every law all the time. That's it, that's all.

I think everything needing to be said has been said, and now you're all just beating at a dead horse. My dogs are on leash when we go to crowded, or unfamiliar places, but when I take them to a huge green space, with no one around at all, I let them off leash for a run for about 10 - 15 minutes, and we get back on leash and home we go.

As for the lady that targeted my husband, she only said something because our dogs were off leash. She wasn't saying our dogs specifically, but in general. If we ever see her again, we'll put them on leash. I have nothing further to contribute to this thread, so thanks for your input and comments. :)

Prin
April 15th, 2005, 01:07 PM
Ok,I'm still scratching my head about it being illegal to drive with your doors unlocked.Is this written anywhere?
I learned it in driving school in Quebec. It carries a either a $42 fine or higher, I can't remember the number. All I know is it is illegal, which is why they started making cars that have doors that automatically lock. Apparently it is safer to drive with doors locked than unlocked in the event of a crash.

CyberKitten
April 15th, 2005, 01:39 PM
Is there a link to any of the documentation Prin? Not that I am questioning the law - I want to show it some law professors @ McGill who think I am a little daft for suggesting it exists, lol (Mind you, one of them is my sister who had her own little dog questioned by the Sureté because he was barking - and NOT in the wrong official language. ;) )

Does it apply to all cars or just cars manufactured after a certain date. You know how most new vehicles come with the automatic child lock - mine did anyway. It locks automatically after I start to drive.

There used to be a show a long time ago on CBC about weird and esoteric laws (like someone under 100 pounds should not be outside if the wind is at a certain level). This might qualify. :)

Prin
April 15th, 2005, 01:42 PM
I'll try calling the driving school they told me it was true, but they didn't have any proof- so I called the SAAQ and talked to a real bozo and he said it wasn't a law because the police wouldn't be able to see if your doors are unlocked while you are driving. But I have been stopped for no reason while the cops went on a fishing trip, trying to find SOMETHING to ticket me for, and that is when the driving school told me you are likely to get the ticket. I don't know any more.

mona_b
April 15th, 2005, 06:04 PM
Prin,don't bother calling the driving school,call your nearest Police Station and ask them.THEY are the ones who would know.... :)

As for cars being made with the automatic door lock,they are called child safety locks as CK stated.It's to protect the kids since they love to play with the locks and doors..... :D


Prin,they were trying to pick you up..... :p ;)

heeler's,I'm not upset at all..... :)

Prin
April 15th, 2005, 08:48 PM
As for cars being made with the automatic door lock,they are called child safety locks as CK stated.It's to protect the kids since they love to play with the locks and doors

No this is not what I am referring to (not the little switch on the inside of the door). I'm talking about when you start driving or just put your car in park, the doors all lock, like when you just lock them manually, only it's automatic. My dad's old Avalon did it and I know some Chryslers do it.

CyberKitten
April 15th, 2005, 09:15 PM
My Chrysler - well Dodge Grand Caravan does it - and it is called a Chold Safety Lock - in the handbook anyway, which I need to read one of these days, lol

Prin
April 15th, 2005, 09:20 PM
But does your door lock too? Back in the day, kiddie locks were the little switches on the inside that made it impossible to open the door from the inside. Kids can unlock doors too, sticky fingers. Kiddie locks make it so even if they fiddle, they can't get out.

Lucky Rescue
April 16th, 2005, 09:22 AM
Apparently it is safer to drive with doors locked than unlocked in the event of a crash

Actually, it's so that when you are at a stop sign, or a red light, someone can't yank the door open and carjack you, kidnap you or worse. It's for our own protection.

Not to mention the insurance won't pay if your car is stolen through your own negligence.

LittleLoves
April 16th, 2005, 03:45 PM
When I went to driving school, my instructor told us that the frame or whatever of your car is more solid with the doors locked in the event of a crash.

I don't know about laws though.

Lizzie
April 16th, 2005, 05:05 PM
I agree with Lucky's analogy.

My friend was in her car, driving out of her apartment parking lot one day when she was carjacked. Her passenger door was unlocked and when she pulled up to the stop sign he jumped in. Holding a knife to her, he forced her to drive to a bank machine to get him money. Luckily she bolted as soon as she hopped out of the car--leaving her keys and car for the taking. ...perhaps we should all start locking our doors!

mona_b
April 16th, 2005, 11:50 PM
No this is not what I am referring to (not the little switch on the inside of the door). I'm talking about when you start driving or just put your car in park, the doors all lock, like when you just lock them manually, only it's automatic. My dad's old Avalon did it and I know some Chryslers do it.

Prin,I'm not talking about the button on the door.I am talking about the automatic door locking device that locks the door when you star the car.This is why they installed them and called them Child Safety Locks.Same with the windows.Alot of them in the back will not go all the way down.Again,Child Safety Windows.

LR is right.It's for OUR own protection.

Prin,just wanted to let you know that it is not illegal to have your doors unlocked where you are.I got one of my dispatchers at the desk to call.She said he actually laughed when she asked him the question.So you can rest easy.You will not get a ticket.... :D

Prin
April 17th, 2005, 12:55 AM
I lock my doors anyway. I had an old Camry once where when you got a good side-wind, the doors would open (not the camry's fault, the age of the camry's fault- I loved that car- it was a rare camry 4x4)... My current car is much better but I don't take the chance :p .

Alot of them in the back will not go all the way down.Again,Child Safety Windows
This made me laugh a bit. Car companies say that for advertising. The real reason that the windows don't go down all the way is because the window doesn't fit in the door and they turn their engineering flaw into an advertising pitch. For a while now, they have been making cars where the back windows go down all the way (the windows are usually straight rectangles and fit in the door despite the wheel curve). My dad's old Honda Accord '91 used to do it. Once the engineers figure out how to change the shape so they go down all the way, they do. And they never advertise those as "Child Un-Safety Windows"... Advertising advertising-- it's all about the right spin. :rolleyes:

CyberKitten
April 17th, 2005, 12:14 PM
Thx Mona!! My lawyer and police friends (incl my bf) were all laughing at me when I told them this re" Quebec - not that I argued too forcefully mind you. But I am glad to know it is not actually a law. :)

Schwinn
April 18th, 2005, 09:01 AM
(Mind you, one of them is my sister who had her own little dog questioned by the Sureté because he was barking - and NOT in the wrong official language. ;) )

LOL :D

It used to be the more expensive cars that locked automatically (like the Cadillacs). As a matter of fact, Cadillac doors used to lock when you started the car, not just put it in drive like most others with the auto-lock feature. Too many people were getting thier keys locked in the car while running, though. Also, the car has to be an automatic for this feature. Prin is right, it is a different feature than the "child proof" locks. I'm not sure I agree with the theory of safety windows, though. A lot of station wagons have this feature, and the wheel is usually set back from the back door, eliminating the issue of the wheel well. I'm not sure it'd be a bad idea, though. Thinking of my own "highway surfing" incident, they should have front "stupid high-school kid pulling stunt" proof windows. (Though I am told I set a land-speed record for dumb-ass lying on his back!)