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Stubbon - Won't drop the ball

twodogsandacat
March 15th, 2005, 11:06 PM
For two days in a row one of my dogs has refused to drop the ball. He drops it as we are playing but as we get close to the gate at the end of our walk he refuses to drop the ball probably because he knows I will put it away.

It took five minutes for him to give it up yesterday and I have to admit I was getting really mad at him. I made him sit and yes I tried to pull it out. I then made him lay down and he did that…he just wouldn’t let go of the ball.

Today he did the same thing. I put my fingers under the outside of his mouth and squeezed (read it in a book) and it came out easier but I do not want to have to do this. He was still telling me he 'didn't want to'.

If I’m the boss shouldn’t he drop it when I tell him? The answer of course is yes. What should I do? I don’t like this at all.

Safyre
March 15th, 2005, 11:19 PM
Not a lot of experience talking here, but all I can do is try!

He's trying to get you to continue to play, obviously.
I'm wondering if you have a 'routine' with him, where he now knows that if you do a certain thing (ie, walk to the gate) play time is over
If yes, than he has caught on to the routine, and thinks that if he keeps the ball, you will not continue past that point. You sit and argue with him, giving him more attention.
Two possible solutions: If you have a routine, change it.
Otherwise: IGNORE. If he refuses to drop the ball, turn your back on him. Do not give any attention to him, good or bad, until he has dropped the ball. He KNOWS what you want him to do.
Once he has dropped it, say thank you, give a pat on the head, and put the ball away.
You may teach him a verbal command for the end of play as well. With Justice, (haha, and my cats) I taught them "one more time!" and then "done" on the next throw. Eventually they clued in that it meant play time was over.

Not sure what else to say... will come back to check on this thread as I'd like to know some other suggestions myself!

Prin
March 15th, 2005, 11:46 PM
For two days in a row one of my dogs has refused to drop the ball. He drops it as we are playing but as we get close to the gate at the end of our walk he refuses to drop the ball probably because he knows I will put it away.

It took five minutes for him to give it up yesterday and I have to admit I was getting really mad at him. I made him sit and yes I tried to pull it out. I then made him lay down and he did that…he just wouldn’t let go of the ball.

Today he did the same thing. I put my fingers under the outside of his mouth and squeezed (read it in a book) and it came out easier but I do not want to have to do this. He was still telling me he 'didn't want to'.

If I’m the boss shouldn’t he drop it when I tell him? The answer of course is yes. What should I do? I don’t like this at all.

I know you don't want to hear this but keep doing the squeezing. After a while the doggie will realize, if I don't give it I get the squeeze, and soon you will just have to put your hand over his muzzle and he'll let it go in your hand and soon after that you'll just have to approach and he'll let go. He's holding on now because he thinks you'll give up and let him keep it. There has to be a pay-off for him somewhere in there.

If the squeeze is guaranteed if he doesn't give it, he will give it. You just have to prove to him that it's guaranteed.

I do the squeeze when doggies at the dog park won't give it up to their owners. It's a dominant approach and one they usually don't win. And when you put your fingers above their lips, when they bite down they bite themselves (I've never had a dog bite down though), so you're safe if you do it right.

Gazoo
March 16th, 2005, 01:51 PM
I do the squeeze when doggies at the dog park won't give it up to their owners. It's a dominant approach and one they usually don't win. And when you put your fingers above their lips, when they bite down they bite themselves (I've never had a dog bite down though), so you're safe if you do it right.


No offense Prin, but if you do that to strange doogies at the dog park.....somebody's gonna get bitted!!!! :p

puppup11
March 16th, 2005, 02:40 PM
Does he drop it on command at other times? Or do you only try to get him to drop it when you're finished playing? If dropping it on command becomes a common thing throughout playing, he won't associate it with not playing anymore. Or if it's because you're near the gate that he won't drop it, try getting him to drop it near the gate and then continue playing for a while, soon he won't be able to tell when you're finished or not and will get used to giving it up all the time. You can try trading a treat at first to get him used to giving it up.

Prin
March 16th, 2005, 04:52 PM
No offense Prin, but if you do that to strange doogies at the dog park.....somebody's gonna get bitted!!!! :p
Never been bitten. But of course, there are not many super aggressive doggies at the dog park I go to. Just disobedient ones.

twodogsandacat
March 16th, 2005, 06:43 PM
Does he drop it on command at other times? Or do you only try to get him to drop it when you're finished playing? If dropping it on command becomes a common thing throughout playing, he won't associate it with not playing anymore. Or if it's because you're near the gate that he won't drop it, try getting him to drop it near the gate and then continue playing for a while, soon he won't be able to tell when you're finished or not and will get used to giving it up all the time. You can try trading a treat at first to get him used to giving it up.

Thanks for all the ideas. I'll try this one first the next time we go to the canal. We played a little in the yard this morning and he dropped it every time. However he won't be playing for a couple of days as now he has a sore paw (ripped his nail on ice).

Still I just can't believe that he was so stubbon yet obeyed every other command I gave. I want 100% not 95%.

Ling
March 16th, 2005, 07:07 PM
Prin - you're so brave! I'd be so afraid to do that to a strange dog!

I use the command "no more" to end play time. Whether it be inside our outside and she's caught on pretty quick. She does the sad "but I still wanna play" look but that's about it.
If we're playing tug and fetch and she's still tugging when I wanna throw it I tell her to "give" and just place my hand under her chin and she releases it.

juniperbreeze
March 16th, 2005, 10:43 PM
Dexter is about a year and something and he's my bf's dog, not mine. But my bf hasn't been training him well, he didn't know how. He used physical hits when the dog would chew on bad things and the dog still chews but cowers when my bf comes in and sees it. But the hitting is teaching fear not teaching him correct behaviour.

So I'm basically trying to train both the dog and my bf. (Quite tough). So far he's starting to get "Sit" (very stubborn dog) and "Shake". He's getting "Stay" pretty good, even when the chew toy is two inches from him (ocassionally he is getting anxious). But drop is just not working well.

This is only from one day so he is doing very well for it, but I'm wondering if I'm teaching "Drop" wrong. I'm teaching him "Chew Toy" to get his chew toys, and then when I see him chew something not his chew toy to say "No!" and say "Chew Toy" to get him to chew on his chew toy then praise him for it. But I can't get him to "Drop" his chew toy.

I'm doing it with the chew toy he can't grip well and I read on here in another forum that you push the chew toy toward him so it's unpleasant (but not harmful) when I say "Drop" to get him to drop it. He won't do it until i do it many times, but even when he does it seems like a fluke. Should I keep on doing this or is this way not going to work with him?

puppup11
March 17th, 2005, 09:06 AM
Make sure he gets lots of praise when he drops it on command even if it's a fluke. Then he'll slowly learn what you're trying to tell him. The main thing is learning how to communicate what you want to the dog, and the best way is through repetition and praise when he does what you want. Don't assume that he's just being stubborn on purpose, he may not understand what you want. You're right that hitting the dog won't teach him. All it's taught him is that when your boyfriend walks in the room, he may or may not get hit. He doesn't know it has anything to do with chewing, and it certainly isn't helping the dog to love and respect him so that he will listen in the future. The best way to correct a dog is to make sure he can't ever get away with doing something he's not supposed to because every time he does, it reinforces the thought that this behavior is ok. So if he tends to chew on things a lot, he has to be either monitored when things are available to him that he shouldn't chew, or confined so that he can't chew when people aren't there. If he does chew, take whatever it is away and say "NO!", that way he'll learn that "NO!" means "stop whatever you're doing" (a very useful command), and then give him a chew toy instead. Then he will learn what is and is not acceptable behavior, and also learn that giving up something doesn't mean the end of playtime.

topaz_n29
March 17th, 2005, 02:47 PM
My Kassidy Shep/Rottie does the same thing when we play ball in the house..he won't quit..lol..finallyi am on my puter and he comes to me agin..like u say w/"soupy looking eyes".i tell him at least twice.."no more..mom's had enough.".and mayb again. then i say" bed". he finally just goes on his bed..which is a roll away cot we have in the puter room..Spoiled??? nahhhh..lol ;)

Prin
March 17th, 2005, 05:56 PM
Prin - you're so brave! I'd be so afraid to do that to a strange dog!

I use the command "no more" to end play time. Whether it be inside our outside and she's caught on pretty quick. She does the sad "but I still wanna play" look but that's about it.
If we're playing tug and fetch and she's still tugging when I wanna throw it I tell her to "give" and just place my hand under her chin and she releases it.

Well, I'm the one who has to break up all the dog fights-- after that taking a ball away is a piece of cake.

What Ling and the rest say is great about having a command for leaving and giving the ball and so on. The trouble will come however if you cave in at the "sad but still wanna play" look. I believe that dogs work for rewards. If a doggy is being "stubborn" repeatedly, chances are there is a pay-off in acting that way. (usually the pay off is that he gets to not do what you have asked because you get annoyed and give up..)

Also, if a dog knows that the only time you ask for the ball near the gate is when you want to take it away forever, then he will be less willing. (I agree with what puppup11 said about continuing to play). Why do you have to take it away right then? Why can't he carry it a bit on the leash? Once you have the leash on, it's easier to discipline as well. It just has to be less of a predictible punishment for the dog (from the dog's point of view).