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March 10th, 2005, 04:16 PM
i found a puppy food called techni-cal. here are the ingredients:

Chicken meal, ground corn, ground rice, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols, a source of vitamin E, and citric acid), chicken, whole dried egg, beet pulp, ground wheat, flaxseed, calcium carbonate, natural flavour, sodium chloride, dicalcium phosphate, potassium chloride, citric acid, lecithin, choline chloride, vitamins (vitamin A, vitamin D3, vitamin E, niacin, vitamin C, inositol, d-calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin, beta carotene, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, vitamin K, biotin, vitamin B12), minerals (zinc proteinate, ferrous sulfate, iron proteinate, zinc oxide, copper proteinate, copper sulfate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), ascorbyl-polyphosphate, yucca schidigera extract, dried rosemary.

Does that look good or no?

March 10th, 2005, 05:04 PM
I would say no because the first two ingredients are chicken meal and ground corn.

Ingredients are listed in the order from the most to the least. so it's mostly chicken meal, then the next largest amount of ingredient is corn. Chicken and corn are big allergy problems in a lot of dogs. Dogs cannot digest corn I'm pretty sure.

March 10th, 2005, 05:18 PM
I think ideally, the only grain you want in there is rice. The first ingredient should always be meat. I am in the process of putting Sophie on Nutro Natural Choice puppy food. It's a lamb and rice food.

March 10th, 2005, 06:43 PM
Rice and millet are good. NEVER feed a dog food with SOY. Apparently it causes bloat... You don't want corn because that's a cheap filler and has too many carbs. Dogs very frequently become allergic to corn and wheat and this food has both. I was checking and it's actually hard to find a puppy food without corn in it and with a whole animal as the protein source (ie lamb and not lamb meal)

This is solid gold's Hunden Flocken puppy food-- compare:

Lamb Meal | Ground Millet | Ground Brown Rice | Canola Oil | Flaxseed Oil | Menhaden Fish Meal | Ground Barley | Rice Bran | Amaranth | Garlic | Blueberries | Yucca Schidigera Extract | Taurine | Carotene | Choline Chloride | Calcium Carbonate | Vitamin E Supplement | Iron Proteinate | Vitamin A Supplement | Zinc Proteinate | Niacin Supplement | Folic Acid | Thiamine | Pyridoxine Hydrochloride | Manganese Proteinate | Menadione Sodium Bisulfate Complex | Copper Proteinate | Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide

This food is really expensive but you can just compare to see the difference. You just have to get the best food that you can with the budget you are comfortable with.

March 10th, 2005, 08:16 PM
If you are looking for a better food and can afford a better quality then I would look to other brands.
The chicken meal is okay but the corn is a no/no. This is an exerpt from the Whole Dog Journal, February issue on dog food and the meat ingredients.

"We look for foods that contain a lot of high-quality animal proteins. We like manufacturers to disclose the approximate percentage of meat, poultry, or fish in their food, but they rarely will, so we look for foods that appear to have lots of animal protein. Ingredients are listed in order or their weight, so ideally a food will have one or two animal proteins in the first few ingredients. Understand that whole meat (chicken, beef, lamb, etc.) contains a lot of water weight. If a food list starts out with chicken, and there is no other animal protein listed until 7th or 8th on the list, the food does not actually contain a lot of animal protein. But if it starts out with chicken, and chicken (or another animal) “meal” (essentially dehydrated chicken) is number two or three on the list, chances are the product contains an admirable amount of animal protein. Animal proteins tend to be more digestible and palatable..."

Again it depends on what you can afford and what is easily accessible in your area. I myself have been travelling an hour and half once a month to buy the Solid Gold, Wolf King for my dogs. After doing my research I liked the ingredients and my dogs have the most beautiful coats. Their ears are always clean and no skin problems so far. I don't suggest anyone else travel as I do and I do combine my trips with other shopping so I kill two birds with one stone.
If I were you I would look for a food with as little as possible corn and wheat.

March 10th, 2005, 08:35 PM
I still havn't decided which carbohydrate source is best in a dog's food (rice seems to be the winner so far) but corn is not on my list. Corn is basically sugar and cellulose. And since dogs (and humans) can't digest cellulose, it has really no food value at all. I don't eat corn very much myself, I'm not going to give it to my dog.

And through looking at resources and other opinions and such, I don't think that having a 'meal' (ie chicken meal rather than whole chicken) is that bad. I just consider it a meat source and leave it at that.

A real basic check is to look at the first three ingredients. I prefer the first 2 to be a meat source and the 3rd can be a grain. I don't know if I've ever seen a kibble where the first 3 ingrdeiants were all meat, but I'd probably buy it.

March 10th, 2005, 09:23 PM
Isn't the "meal" just what coppperbelle said, dried, ground up meat. It doesn't have any bones or beaks or bad parts, it's the same meat, just dry. A pound of wet meat would have less benefit and be less concentrated than a pound of dry meat.

March 10th, 2005, 09:36 PM
This is solid gold's Hunden Flocken puppy food-- compare:

That is very similar to the Nutro Puppy Food I have, except for the millet. I hear it is good.

March 10th, 2005, 09:42 PM
I would say no because the first two ingredients are chicken meal and ground corn.

Dogs cannot digest corn I'm pretty sure.

Techni cal is a good quality middle range dog-food. It's not on the same level as Solid Gold or Wysong but not everyone can afford the high end stuff.

Chicken meal can be fine depending on the type of chicken parts used.

Although corn CAN be an allergen for some dogs. It is highly digestible when ground before use and is just fine, just not quite as digestible as rice. Ground corn is a good quality source of carbohydrates. And, because it includes the entire corn kernel, it contributes additional protein, corn oil, corn bran and vitamins and minerals to the diet.

Here's a summary and link to a study on whole ground corn use in dogfood.

Sorghum and corn show promise as dog food
Rice is commonly used in premium Australian dog foods because it is highly digestible and hypoallergenic. However, sorghum and corn are available and are much less expensive.
Faecal nutrient digestibility of diets containing rice, sorghum and corn, plus the associated faecal quality, was investigated. The nutrient digestibilities of the corn and sorghum diets were lower compared with the rice diet, but the differences in digestibility values were five per cent or less.

These small variations in digestibility were considered unlikely to be physiologically important. The dogs on each diet were also judged as having ideal faecal quality - an important factor when consumers judge the quality of a dog food. The Australian researchers concluded that extruded sorghum and corn are good alternatives to rice as the primary cereal grain in dog foods.

Twomey LN, Pethick DW, Rowe JB et al. J Nutr 2002; 132(6 Suppl 2): 1704S-1705S.

Corn is/has been a staple for many types of animals and many societies.

My dogs are both on Acana which has human grade ingredients that has whole grain ground corn and whole grain rice in it and they both do amazing on it. It's made here in Alberta and it's a great product!!

It's a myth that corn is bad for dogs.

March 10th, 2005, 09:46 PM
How much does the Acana set you back?

March 10th, 2005, 10:03 PM
Acana's almost the same price as Nutro, only about 10% more, it's Canadian made and it uses HUMAN GRADE ingredients. It's really good stuff, especially for the price!!!! They also make lamb and rice for the sensitive doogie.

March 11th, 2005, 12:27 AM
I wouldn't worry about Bloat.This is a Cocker Spaniel puppy.Bloat only occurs in deep chested breeds..GSD's,Dobes,Rotties,Labs,Great Danes,Newfies.Just to name a few... :)

I say a definate NO to Techni Cal..Rule of thumb,first 4-5 ingredients should not be corn.

Here are a few premium foods.

Chicken Soup for the Pet Lovers Soul

March 11th, 2005, 09:53 AM
I found the ingredient list I had clipped out of the 'Wellness' brand I originally fed my dog. First 4 ingrediants:

Deboned chicken, salmon meal, fish meal, oatmeal.

It's a very good premium brand (I jump after anything that includes fish in it), but I'm still looking for a reasonably cheap source. What I feed my dog now isn't quite as nice (still a decent quality though, Kirklands from Costco) but it's atleast 1/3 the price.

March 12th, 2005, 01:16 AM
That's the thing--- dog food is always a trade-off between budget and quality. You just have to feed your dog the best food you are able to and you feel comfortable with.

March 12th, 2005, 01:32 AM
Is solid gold's Hunden Flocken puppy food a good quality food? I bought a bag of it for Ruby, and she just didn't seem to thrive on it. I was feeding her Purina puppy chow before that, and gradually mixed in the Solid Gold. But it seemed that for the next 2 weeks while she was eating only the Solid Gold, she didn't grow, nor did she gain any substantial weight.

I got her back on the Purina and she is growing well again, getting longer and filling out nicely. I thought I had made a mistake getting the Solid Gold, (got talked into it by a clerk at a pet supply store), but people here are saying it's a premium food. Now I'm really confused as to what's the best thing to feed her.

I also bought the weight management food for my "fluffy" beagle but ended up mixing it in with her regular dogfood when I was under the belief that the Solid Gold wasn't good for her. :o

March 12th, 2005, 02:21 AM
Solid gold is a great food. It just takes a while to see effects when you switch foods. Maybe most of her energy went to the adjustment rather than growth.

I think I said in another thread that when you move up in food quality, the digestion is different. The cheaper commercial foods have digestive aids in them that make the food seem easier to digest. I believe the dog has to physiologically relearn how to digest on it's own.

My doggies took a month and a half to get their stools back to normal. (Solid gold calls this 'detoxifying', I call it "Holy cow! that's an enormous smelly load!!!" :yuck: ) I know that when a vet tells you to go on a prescription diet for severe allergies, they say it can take up to 6 months for the body to clear up. If it takes that long for allergies, it probably takes that long to get rid of chemicals from previous foods and to see the complete effect of the food. But like I said, my doggies are back to normal a month and a half later, you have to give it a chance when you're switching foods... And sometimes it's better if they grow slower (mostly for big dogs- slow growth= easier on joints and bones)

March 12th, 2005, 01:41 PM
If all her energy is going into "adjusting" to the new dog food rather than into growing, then wouldn't I be better off waiting until she's finished growing before switching her food?

I don't want to stunt her growth. I want her to get as big as she's supposed to, without any adverse effects on her growth. She's 5 months right now, and about 24 lbs. I don't think she's got much more in height or length to go, but she does need to fill out.

March 12th, 2005, 02:47 PM
It won't stunt her growth and there is no need to wait, especially if the food is of better quality. If she grows slower, she'll just grow for a longer time. She'll still end up the same size. The only things that affect final size are neutering early (though I don't know how proven that is), genes and malnutrition, as far as I know. Switching foods doesn't really qualify as malnutrition...