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Help....

ThaiGhing
February 25th, 2005, 11:35 AM
I just got back from the groomers.. and Thai (my one year old shar pei) bit the groomer! She is at hospital, and will probably require 6 to 8 stitches near the corner of her mouth. I am so upset. Thai has never bitten anyone before, in fact he is usually too scared to even approach people. I am so worried... Am I going to lose my dog?? Will he be deemed a vicious dog?? Am I going to be sued?? I am so upset and worried. The office staff told me the Publib Health Board will be calling me. Thai is up to date on his vaccinations, and has no record of biting anyone before. What will happen next?? Anyone have an ideas or experience with this... I would appreciate hearing about it. Thanks.

GsdDiamond
February 25th, 2005, 11:41 AM
Oh my. I'm so sorry to hear that. Do a little digging while you wait for the phone call though. If you can, I guess from the police or other agency, if this groomer has been biten before, by any other dog. If the groomer did something wrong, the liklihood that Thai bite out of self defense is great. Talk to the other groomer...the one you used to bring him to. Find out from them if there's anything about Thai that they noticed. Was he nervous about having his feet done?

This groomer had to have been very close to him to have her face biten. What was she doing when she got bit? Was she grooming his nails? Did she cut the quick? I can't see Thai doing this "just because". I think something must have happened to make him do it.

Please...keep us posted!!!

BMDLuver
February 25th, 2005, 12:14 PM
Groomers know this is a hazard to the job. I would certainly not think your dog would be taken away as a result of biting while being groomed. It's the same for a veterinarian, you run the risk of being injured by an animal. The more animals you handle the greater the risk. It goes with the job.

Please do keep us posted and sorry that this happened.

ThaiGhing
February 25th, 2005, 12:19 PM
Well, the last groomer we used was at petcetra... and she muzzled all the dogs she groomed. I mentioned this to the new groomer. She said she didnt like to use any sedation or such is she didnt need to.... she said she would try it and see, if Thai was not cooperating she would use the muzzle.

Thai was spooked even when we got there... He was pulling... and hiding from her..... He is afraid of new people, and I made sure the groomer was aware of this. The staff at the groomers said the Groomer was "just" trying to pick Thai up to place him in the bathtub. I am not sure why her face was so close to his mouth?? I am so upset. I feel so badly for the groomers because its her face of all places.

I have called my vets office because the groomers office took their name and number... So i wanted to forewarn them . The vets said they have never had a problem with Thai... even when we left him there overnight for his neutering. He has never attempted to bite anyone there. And he is up to date on all his vaccinations.

Ok I took Thai to the groomers at 10 am... they told me to come back for him at 11 30 am. I got there at 11 45 am to find out that Thai had bitten the groomer. They did not call me to let me know anything happened. I live about 4 minutes walk from the office. I could have gone over immediately.

Has anyone out here ever had a dog bite the groomers?? Pls help calm me down. I am quite stressed and nervous here.

Pisces20
February 25th, 2005, 12:43 PM
From what I know of dog bite laws (I was bitten), the dog can be taken away and watched for 10 days. BUT in Burlington anyway, there is an exception to the law, that if the dog was threatened, cornered, teased, etc. then it is not treated as an aggressive animal (it was acting in self-defence). If you dog is nervous, and the groomer knew about this and still did not muzzel him, then it is unfortunate, but the bite is her fault. I agree with the others that being a groomer or a vet, or someone that works with strange animals every day, that being bitten or scratched is part of the job. Worst case, it looks like you will just have to keep a muzzle on your dog when visiting groomers, etc. I'm sure your vet will be a great reference on the temperment of your dog, should the groomer want to further this matter. It is not pleasent that she was bitten, but it is a hazard of the job and she did not take the right precautions. Fingers crossed that everything turns out okay for you! Please keep us posted....am thinking of you!!!

ThaiGhing
February 25th, 2005, 01:16 PM
I am so freaking out. I dont know what to expect. I am so worried for Thai and the groomer. I have yet to hear from anyone. I am sitting here waiting and waiting. My nerves are shot. What does the quarantine mean?? I live in an apartment building. Does that mean Thai cannot leave my apartment unit?? Where does he do his business?? I am confused. I thougth quarantine was for strays and or abandoned animals?? I thought it was for dogs who did not have proof of vaccinations?? Maybe I am wrong.

I dont know what to do. I dont know what to say. I wasnt there. I dont know if Thai was provoked, or what? The lady from the front desk at the groomers office said Thai was unprovoked. That the groomer just lifted Thai to put him in the tub. But I wasnt there. I dont know. Thats all I can say.. I DONT KNOW. I am so upset. I am stressing out waiting for the Public Health Unit to call. I am stressing out period about all of this. Our vet said not to worry, Thai has never bitten before, Thai has never attempted to bite before, Thai is up to date on vaccinations, and everything will be ok. I am crossing my fingers.

Thai is fast asleep in his crate as we speak. He was so happy to see us when we went to get him. He was jumping all around and giving lots of kisses to me and my fiance. I want to find a place or person to help me deeal with Thai's scared or nervous nature. I dont want him to be afraid all the time. Anyone have any advice or suggestions
?

mastifflover
February 25th, 2005, 01:26 PM
Calm down you are not going to lose Thai and he is not going to be put down. He will be quarantined at home with you which means he will only be going out with you for walks to do his business. I have been through this before. The fact that you had warned the groomer about him being nervous which I am sure they could see she was the one who prefered not to muzzle him and you did tell her that the last groomer muzzled him. Make sure you have copies of all his vet records shots and it will do no harm to ask your vet to write you a letter saying they have never seen aggression in him even when he was there for his neuter and stayed overnight. Calm down I know how awful you feel but it is a risk with these types of jobs and vets and groomers know that. Still it is awful to have your dog bite someone. The worst that will happen is they could issue a muzzle order but I highly doubt it.
((((hug))))

The quarrantine is for 10 days and is in your home you don't have to turn him over to anyone P.S. I reported the bite myself and they took almost 5 days to get back to me so don't hang around waiting for them go on with your life.
PM me

Writing4Fun
February 25th, 2005, 01:36 PM
I so feel for you right now. :grouphug: I agree with everyone else, though. The nature of the business puts people at risk of bites and scratches. The groomer had to have known that when she became a groomer. It's like a child care worker expecting to never catch a cold. :p Really, though, if someone tells me their dog is nervous and is usually muzzled at the groomer's, how thick would I have to be to try to pick that dog up without putting a muzzle on first??

I want to find a place or person to help me deeal with Thai's scared or nervous nature. I dont want him to be afraid all the time. Anyone have any advice or suggestions?
I don't have any specific recommendations. But you might want to research behaviourists. Your vet might be able to refer you.

Good luck, and keep us posted! :thumbs up

meowzart
February 25th, 2005, 01:52 PM
Hang in there - I know you feel awful!

It sounds kind of suspicious to me! If a groomer is going to handle a nervous dog without taking the time to see how the dog reacts to her touching him in various parts - well duh!!! If she had slowly began touching him in various parts of his body, to see his reaction this probably either 1) wouldn't have happened or 2) she would have seen the signs of impending snapping and muzzled him.

I don't trust their version of the story and neither should you. However, nothing would be gained by you getting defensive and angry with THEM. The best response from you would be to go buy some flowers for the groomer and a nice card - play all nicey nicey - apologize grovel etc!!! and then NEVER GO BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In the medical field you are much less likely to be sued over an incident if you are upfront apologetic, concerned and compassionate with the person. so use the same 'logic' here and be all nice and sweet and then RUN!

My spaniel was very nervous and fearful around strangers - which was always a concern for me, but at the groomers she was always wonderful, and I think it was how they handled her. I told them she was nervous and sometimes growls or snaps - and they knew how to handle her so she was just putty in their hands - they loved her! Go figure!!!!

klau
February 25th, 2005, 02:02 PM
Bach flower remedies might help.
I give it to my cat before I bring her to the vet or nail clipping.
Remember to talk to your vet before you try it.

Good Luck.

Lucky Rescue
February 25th, 2005, 02:25 PM
Groomers know this is a hazard to the job.

Agree that anyone who works with animals assumes this risk. I would think if the dog was a stranger to them, or they had any concerns they would muzzle the dog. Safer for everyone.

You say your dog is afraid of people. Going to a stranger to have her manipulate him and handle him probably made him bite from fear, but you have no way of knowing what really happened.

Please try to not worry too much. I'm sorry for the person who was hurt and know how upset you must be, but really, this is like a horse trainer who gets kicked. Just part of the job.

Luvmypit
February 25th, 2005, 02:31 PM
This groomer if smart would be silly to sue you anyways. You told her that shes nervous and is usually muzzled at her other groomers. It would also be bad for the business to sue one of their clients. It says to me if I bring my dog there and they do not handle them properly and get bit I may get sued. I would choose another groomer for sure. I would do exactly what was said. Send a card. Don't say anything about the incident or take full responsibilty right away as it will be used against you if she does want to sue. Don't deny responsibilty either just don't discuss it too much till you see where the groomer is at. Make sure you let them know you did tell the groomer she was nervous and has been muzzled at all other groomers. Don't say its her fault but give them reasons as to why thai might have bitten. Now as for what will happen to Thai. Nothing except for Quarentine. Your friend will not be taken away and I doubt a muzzle order would be enforced on her as Thai hasn't done anything like that. Your fine. Just relax. I know you feel terrible because you feel its a reflection on you but its not. Atleast that is what I would feel. That is what I feel when my dog acts like a dumby or jumps all over people. But truly can you blame the poor thing Thai was just scared. If they feel the need to defend themselves in this crazy human world then she should not be punished.

ThaiGhing
February 25th, 2005, 03:07 PM
Hey all, the public health unit just called me. She was so nice. Told me not to be upset and that it doesnt mean Thai is a mean or vicious dog. She said they deal with lots of accidental dog bites... that not all dog bites are aggressive in nature. I was so upset before. The public health worker will be out next week on Monday, to do a home visit, to meet Thai, to make sure he is not sick with rabies or anythhing. She will return again on March 7th to do a follow up quick glance at Thai.

I have not heard from the groomer yet. Should I call her office or wait for her to call me?? I am not sure what the correct thing to do would be in this position?? They said she would call me when she got back from hospital.... But this all happened around 10 am this morning, and its now 4 pm and nothing yet. I just want to say sorry for this unfortunate accident, and get some more details on what went so wrong. What do you think?? Should I call her, or wait for her to call me??

chico2
February 25th, 2005, 03:23 PM
Thai,I think the groomer knows this sort of thing can happen in her type of job and she will not be suing,how can she possibly??
Like someone mentioned,send her some flowers and an apology from you and Thai,chin up :thumbs up

GsdDiamond
February 25th, 2005, 03:27 PM
I think, if it were me, I would not call. Mail a card (get well) to the office and leave it at that. If she contacts you, then talk about it....but don't force her to talk to you. Even when people KNOW it's thier fault, they still are angry. Not necessarily angry at anyone....but just angry. Many's a time I've been angry at a situation, but not a specific person, usually it's at something I've done myself, but anger is just natural. Follow the advice of the others and send a card (and flowers too is you want) but other than that, I'd leave it be for a bit.

Thai will be fine. You'll see! :grouphug:

ThaiGhing
February 25th, 2005, 04:10 PM
Hey all, just wondering, do most groomers make you sign a contract when you bring your pet in for services?? I ask because the last groomer I used ( at a chain store) made me sign a contract or waiver form. But this groomer (little independant store) did not even ask my last name, address, etc. Just curious if most of you had to or have signed the waiver or contract??

mastifflover
February 25th, 2005, 04:27 PM
I am glad you got a nice woman from public health in fact the guy I had was very nice and as long as you don't be rude and always forthcoming with them they are pretty reasonable to deal with. The guy I had told me that I was so nice they deal with a lot of ignorant people and they are only doing their jobs. He did not even come over to see George I faxed him all of his vet records and the info from the rescue and that satisfied him he did call me a couple of times to check on how it was going. So relax and I agree either drop by or send a card and flowers and do not ever admit you were wrong because in fact you were not you warned them. Hell I make my vet muzzle Buddy when they clean his ears I know it bothers him and I know he won't bite me but I can't guarantee my vets safety and I adore my vet and don't want him to get bit or for Buddy to bite.

Lucky Rescue
February 25th, 2005, 05:59 PM
I have not heard from the groomer yet. Should I call her office or wait for her to call me??

Just to be nice, I would certainly tell her that I was sorry she was hurt, and maybe send a card or some flowers. You can do this without accepting liability. Showing no concern at all may make her angry enough to try and cause trouble.

Is it really necessary to send your dog to a groomer? Short dog dogs are easy to groom at home, and you could have your vet cut his nails if you cannot. You know your dog is not good with strangers, and going to a groomer would be a fearful's dog's worst nightmare. You really shouldn't be sending him there. HE will probably never like strangers, and this is obviously stressed him so much the bite occured.

Anyone who works with dogs for a living should know that shar peis (and chows and other Asian breeds) are often suspicious and even aggressive with strangers and take precautions accordingly.

ThaiGhing
February 25th, 2005, 10:05 PM
I have spoken to the groomer this evening. She was very nice about the whole situation. She said she does not blame me. She does not blame Thai. She does not blame herself. She said it was the situation.

The groomer required 8 stitches to her face. She said she was bitter that it happened, but that she was not mad or upset with me or Thai. She has been showing, grooming and training shar peis for 16 years. Thats why we took Thai to her. She has experience. She said this is the first bite to the face she has ever had in 16 years doing this work. But that she should have listened to my suggestions and should have been smarter in the way she dealt with the dog.

So today I spoke to the Public Health Unit, and the Groomer. Both were very nice. They made me feel better. They didnt treat me like I was a horrible dog owner. They didnt make me feel like Thai was vicious or ill behaved. I spoke to the groomer for over an hour. She offered me advice and suggestions on how to deal with dogs that bite out of fear. She said he face is sore, but that scars add character.

Thanks everyone. You have been a tremendous help and I appreciate your support in this matter. Thanks again.

chico2
February 26th, 2005, 08:26 AM
Good to hear ThaiGing,now you and sweet Thai can relax,we would love to see a new pic,haven't seen Thai for a loong time :thumbs up

caliper
February 26th, 2005, 09:36 AM
It is great to hear that your talks went well with all Parties. I dont think I ever saw your pup, so im sitting here waiting. Give Thai a kiss for me. Thanks - ;) Cal...

meowzart
February 26th, 2005, 02:48 PM
well done! You can see that because you handled it so well, everyone was on your side. (groomer probably also feels silly that it happened to her)

ThaiGhing
February 26th, 2005, 08:11 PM
I really appreciate your words of encouragement and your support in this time. I am working on getting pics of Thai, but I dont have a digital camera, and dont own a scanner either. The next roll of film I develope will be on disc! So pls be patient. I am working on my fiance to buy me a digital camera.. he thinks I am crazy for wanting a digital cam to take pics of Thai :p . But... I am sure once we have it in the house.. he will be using it all the time. LOL.

Sooo... I spoke to groomer again today to see how she was feeling..She was back at work... seeing 8 dogs today.... and said she was not in alot of pain.. but was taking medication as well.

Thai on the other hand has reverted. He is leary, and more skiddish now. Before he would come right to me to take a treat.. and now he is a little cautious. Like he is still frightened. Makes me wonder what happened to him after this incident?? They probably yelled at him, or dropped him, or pushed him away.. and now he seems more scared, more leary, more skiddish, more cautious. I am working with him.. building up his trust again... but its slow work. But we will make our way.. slow and steady wins the race... so I am sure in a few months time we will be well on our way.

Thanks again everyone. I really appreciate each and every one of you being here when I really needed some support. It means alot to me. Thanks again.

Jenn and Thai
:angel: