Pets.ca - Pet forum for dogs cats and humans 

-->

degrading email from rescue

raingirl
January 26th, 2005, 11:38 AM
Obviously I can't post any info here regarding which rescue, etc, but I just got a really nasty response from a rescuer when I inquired about a dog on petfinder.

When I inquire about a dog, I give a brief background about my living situation, and ask whether the dog in question would be suitable, or any other dogs at their rescue that they could recommend.

This is basically what they said (the comment about weather was because I pointed out that while I don't have a yard, I live right beside a dog park, and would take the dog there for exercise daily, unless it's too cold, hot, etc. Obviously I'm not going to take a dog out in -30C wheather to a dog park!):

I strongly advise you to reconsider adopting a dog.
No dog would be happy being left alone for over nine hours, no matter how calm he/she might be.
It would be totally unfair to put a dog in a position where behavioral issues would soon become apparent because your dog would be lonely and bored.
Dogs require exercise no matter what the weather.
People who love their dogs are prepared to take them out in all weathers.
A cat might be a better choice as a pet for you.
It's comments like this that totally break my heart and make me feel like the worst person on earth. How could someone be so mean? It's comments like this that make me what to go to a pet store and just buy a pet there! Or maybe I should just lie on the applications?? I'm just so angry and sad and discouraged I don't know what to think.

Miker
January 26th, 2005, 11:47 AM
Just for clarification:

9 hours alone?
What did you mean that you wouldn't go to the park in -30. Did you indicate how you would allow them their excercise?

Not attempting to be rude, but perhaps it was a weakness in communication.

twinmommy
January 26th, 2005, 11:52 AM
I hear about this often. My heart goes out to you, Raingirl, you obviously want to do "the right thing" and rescue, and sound like you are being given a hard time.

I don't want to step on any toes here...but I don't find it too realistic of rescue to prefer the "stay at home" moms, or dads. There is good and bad to all sides of this argument. Most people have to work. Period.

Sure the SAHM, or dad, is there all the time but that doesn't mean that the animal will be tended to all day. I'm sure that many a pet is temporarily nelected, although not intentionally, in a family where there is one salary.A lot of things "have to wait" (and those of us with pets know that they need more than just food and H2o) My friend's husband works from HOME and I can't think of a worse candidate--the house literally caught fire and he ws oblivious to it--eyes stuck to the monitor!!---I'm sure you get my point.

However 9 hours is long, could someone not come in and let out the dog, for you? And if so, would that be enough for the rescue, or would they still find reason?

The whole thing is very sad, I feel for you, Raingirl.

raingirl
January 26th, 2005, 12:04 PM
Well, it was a short email I sent them, but they could at least have asked for clarification instead of jumping on me and making me feel like the worst person in the world.

If they had asked about the weather thing, I would have explained that I meant that I'm not going to take my dog to a dog park in -30C and risk freezing it to dealth! Also, same thing if it's too hot, don't want the dog to get overheated! In those situations I would probably found some other way to give the dog a walk (hence my thread about the "going up stairs" thing).

And yes, it would be 9+ hours alone. No matter what I do, I cannot get it lower than that. It's impossible. If my BF takes the last possible train in to work (last train that leaves for Toronto each morning), and I take the first possible one home (first train that leaves for Brampton in the evening), the absolute minimum between those two trains is 9.5 hours. There is nothing we can do about that one.

Unfortunately we do not have anyone who could come and let the dog out during the day. We don't have any friends of neighbours that we know in the same city. I only know of one service that offers dog walking, and it's $15 per day (which I cannot afford) and also, it's just a teenager in our building, whom I would not trust!

I was actually surprised to get this type of response from this rescue, as I have heard they are great.

I guess there is nothing I can do but add it to my list of rescues I won't be dealing with.

mastifflover
January 26th, 2005, 12:04 PM
That letter from the rescue was rude as far as I am concerned and I would let them know that. You are trying to give a dog a home and being honest about your situation, well maybe you should lie, sorry but normally I would never suggest it when the welfare of animal is involved but this is ridiculous. This is not the first response like this regarding leaving a dog at home for 9 hours that you have recieved. Well your letter made perfect sense to me that you are not going to a dog park in -30 temps. You are obviously going to take the dog out. My dog is very well adjusted and he is home for 9 hours. We go for a walk in the morning and we go out when I come home and if it is so cold out we make our walks shorter. If my dog could talk and you asked him if he would rather have another home than with me I would bet my life he would never even consider it. Unfortunately some people have to work to have things like a roof over there head and a food and to be able to have pets. Well these people from the rescues obviously have the funds to stay home and are not interested in finding forever homes for the animals unless you stay at home. So maybe you should suggest that they post on there sites if you work don't bother to apply for an animal we will not let you have one. These are the things that make people go to pet stores and byb. Raingirl if the cutie from Barlees falls through just lie and say you work part time as long as you know the dog does not suffer from S/A I am sure the dog would rather have a forever home then be shuffled around till they find someone who stays at home with no children under 10 because don't forget children are also a problem when adopting and this I understand, saftey of the dog and the kids. Sorry for the rant but I just had this same issue with a friend who wants to adopt but she also works for a living which seems to be a sin in rescue, it never used to be

raingirl
January 26th, 2005, 12:30 PM
Well...

I'm usually not someone to...well...stick up for something I beleive in (I'm a little bit of a wimp, I admit it) but I just sent a response back to them. Not the nicest response, a little manipulative and mean, but I wanted to let them know how it made me feel. We'll see what happens.

I totally agree mastiff. As you know, this definately not the only time this has happened. I have a list of about 5 rescues now that have given me a similar response, and they are all reputable and large rescues with lots of dogs on petfinder.

lil_kirk
January 26th, 2005, 12:32 PM
I agree. This is EXACTLY why people run to buy dogs from the newspaper. I realize that rescue is a hard job, and that the welfare of the animal is simply their most important concern--but lest we forget that more hours at home does not equal a better loved pet.

This goes without saying for humans and children too. Just because you stay at home all day with your children does NOT mean you are a better mother. What if you stay home and beat your kids? Or neglect them while you surf the internet or give yourself manicures all day? Or have your friends over to drink and smoke and pretend you don't have kids all day?

Anyways, my point here is that I agree---it is not fair. You may give more love to an animal in the few hours in the morning and night than other's are able to....you may also provide it with more care during the day alone than some do while they are with it....

Lucky Rescue
January 26th, 2005, 12:34 PM
I read the letter carefully and I really don't see any attempt to be degrading..?

I also think there could have just been a misunderstanding in the
communication. There are lots of people who get dogs then dont' want to take them out unless it's sunny and 70 degrees, with a light breeze.:p

Well, it was a short email I sent them, but they could at least have asked for clarification instead of jumping on me and making me feel like the worst person in the world.

Make your emails longer and try and cover most the issues that may come up. WE hate getting short emails that make us write again and again trying to extract information. The more information you give, the better! If the rescue is reputable, they WANT long letters!

These people don't know you, and unless you explain in great detail exactly what kind of owner you will be, they have no way of knowing. Their ONLY concern is that a dog get a wonderful, lifetime home.

You wouldn't believe the kinds of requests rescues get and the kind of people they must deal with on a daily basis.

And it's true that no dog is happy being left alone for 9 hours. I know mine wasn't, but since his alternative was death I didn't feel TOO bad.

You might want to think about getting a dog from a shelter. A pet store only has tiny puppies, and this would definitely not be a good idea in your situation.

but I just sent a response back to them. Not the nicest response, a little manipulative and mean,

A better response may have been "Sorry if I wasn't clear. I do intend to make sure the dog gets adequate exercise, and I'll do this by...etc etc".

mastifflover
January 26th, 2005, 12:44 PM
You might want to think about getting a dog from a shelter. A pet store only has tiny puppies, and this would definitely not be a good idea in your situation.
Lucky by no means was I advocating she buy from a pet store. I do realize what freaks are out there but even if I did not know raingirl I would not have responded in such a short manner I realize they are overworked but the bottom line is the animal finding a forever home. Yes maybe he has to write again but he could have just copied her email highlighed sections and asked her to be more specific. One of her reasons for a rescue over a shelter is so she knows more about the dog and if it would be good alone.
I strongly advise you to reconsider adopting a dog.
No dog would be happy being left alone for over nine hours, no matter how calm he/she might be.
It would be totally unfair to put a dog in a position where behavioral issues would soon become apparent because your dog would be lonely and bored.
Dogs require exercise no matter what the weather.
People who love their dogs are prepared to take them out in all weathers.
A cat might be a better choice as a pet for you.
I would have been offended too sorry but there is a condesending tone to this email.

raingirl
January 26th, 2005, 12:50 PM
Thanks Lucky. I will make my emails longer next time, if you think it would help.

I usually just send a brief request, and ask for more info on the dog. I figured by pointing out where my usual problems are with rescues (being gone during the day, living in an apartment) I would be able to get a quick response from the rescue letting me know whether the dog may be suitable or not, and whether I should bother applying for it. I figured it would be a lot less trouble doing it that way, than going into a huge long speach only to get a response like "this dog needs a yard" or "this dog needs someone home during the day". I thought it would also be saving the time of the rescuers not to read a long winded email.

Maybe degrading wasn't the best word to describe it, but it made me feel like the worst person on earth for wanting to own a dog.

My response wasn't really that bad. I just pointed out to them that they made me feel bad, and they should have asked more questions instead of jumping to conclusions. THen I explained in more detail about the weather thing and the being away from home 9 hours, and how there really is no option there. I explained how I disagree with their position, and how I feel that an animal that is well loved in the short time we have is better than (as you have said) a family that only passively loves their dog, even if someone is home during the day. I explained that all I wanted to do was help a dog in need and they didn't need to make me feel so bad for wanting to do a good thing.

And don't worry, I won't buy from a pet store. :) I really want to go the rescue route, and not a shelter as well, as I am worried what might happen with a shelter dog, expecially since they don't know much about them. Plus, rescues often offer support, and it would be nice to have someone to call, like the foster, for advise if something happened. I know from reading the Boxer rescue site, that they are really into helping out the adopters with questions and info.

Also, when I was writing my response to the rescue, it occured to me that what if other people out there have contacted them about dogs and got similar responses for being in similar situations. They may not have know what to do, and thinking they would never get a dog in rescue, they turned to a petstore or BYB?

Lucky Rescue
January 26th, 2005, 01:08 PM
It's true I'm looking at this from the other side of the discussion, but am trying to be unbiased.

If you just drop a short note asking for more information on the dog, and the rescue person writes a long and detailed letter, only to find out the person is totally unsuitable to own a dog, it's kind of a waste of time since they often have a great deal of mail to respond to.

And I CAN see why you felt insulted. You KNOW you would be a good owner and it's upsetting and hurtful when someone else thinks you are not. If that letter came from the person I think it did, I can only tell you she loves animals and their welfare comes before anything else.

Sure it's possible to have dogs and work too. I know someone who had two Goldens in an apt. She was incredibly dedicated and was out there exercising them at 7a.m before work. Her dogs were happy and well-cared for. It's not easy, but it's doable depending on the particular dog of course.

Don't mean to harp, but you may have better luck with a greyhound rescue. These dogs are couch potatoes, are certainly not used to tons of attention and (depending on individual dog) are more than happy to curl up on a soft bed for the day! Just out of curiosity, I'm going to ask Greyhound rescue here if they would adopt to someone in your situation.

foster-in-ON
January 26th, 2005, 01:16 PM
Also, when I was writing my response to the rescue, it occured to me that what if other people out there have contacted them about dogs and got similar responses for being in similar situations. They may not have know what to do, and thinking they would never get a dog in rescue, they turned to a petstore or BYB?

Raingirl - You are so right. I here this from potential adoptors all the time. It breaks my heart. They end up going to the pet stores and classifieds.

It saddens me that you received such a degrading response. Keep your chin up, someone out there will recognize that you have the potential to give a dog a wonderful home.

foster-in-on
http://www.geocities.com/canada_npm/

mastifflover
January 26th, 2005, 01:20 PM
Lucky a greyhound would probably be ideal for her. I live in a loft and I am up at 6 to take Buddy out for an hour as long as temps cooperate. It actually becomes easier you get a routine going and it seems to be easy I don't even think about it wake up, roll over get kisses throw on clothes outside, come home, shower, get dressed little cuddle time and off to work. Even Buddy has the routine down pat.

happycats
January 26th, 2005, 01:35 PM
I Don't think they were trying to be mean, they are just trying to do whats best for the dog, as I am sure they want to be sure it will be a FOREVER, home. I am sure they get people who are away 9 hours a day, who adopt, and when the dog messes in the house, or starts chewing or barking, they bring it back!
I know how badly you want a dog, I to have wanted a dog for a very long time, and I know alot of you are going to jump down my throat :eek: for saying this, but if I lived in an apartment, and worked 9.5 hours a day, I would not get a dog, as I don't think its fair expect a dog to hold it all day,(God knows I can't!! :( ) nor would I want to have it caged all day. And all it would take is 1 neighbor to complain, and it's either you or the dog goes!! :sad: .
To be completely honest, maybe it would be better to wait.
Until maybe your of your b/f work hours change, or you get a house with a yard??
Don't be mad it's just my opinion :(

raingirl
January 26th, 2005, 01:49 PM
I see your point lucky. It also takes their time to respond. But then again, I wasn't looking for a long response, I was just looking to see if the dog I was enquiring might be suitable for a first time owner, in an apartment, gone most of the day at work. If there was a possibility, the I would complete an application.

I contacted a greyhound rescue once (I'll see if I can find the email) but they said they prefer to adopt to homes (houses) not apartments, and only if someone is home less than 8 hours per day. Plus, they said it would best to walk them 4 hours per day (four 1 hour walks) Also, most are not housetrained.

Lucky Rescue
January 26th, 2005, 02:18 PM
Plus, they said it would best to walk them 4 hours per day (four 1 hour walks)

Are you certain about this? If so, that is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. No one is going to do this.

Greyhounds need no more exercise than many breeds of similiar size and much less exercise than MANY other breeds. They are also hear intolerant, so most would collapse if forced to walk for 4 hours in the summer.(and would freeze in winter) When I had a greyhound, I walked him about an hour an day and that was plenty.These are not, as a rule, high energy dogs, although they love and need a good run maybe once a week.

As for housetraining, greyhounds are accustomed to being caged which makes training them very easy and adult dogs catch on very quickly.

raingirl
January 26th, 2005, 02:48 PM
Happy, don't worry, you aren't jumping down my throat. I appreciate anything people can suggest to help me out.

Now, I have wanted a dog ALL MY LIFE and this is the first time EVER I have lived somewhere that I can have one. I have been waiting for this for so long! But I don't see how I will ever get my hours down to less than 9.5. It's really impossible at least right now. No one knows for sure what can happen in the future!

Both our industries are 9-5 jobs and we can't change that. If my boss would let me work 7AM to 3PM I would do that in a second, but unfortunately company policy is that all employees must be present in the office between 9:30 AM and 3:30 PM. If I could leave work at 3PM, I could catch a 3:15PM train, and the dog would be alone only 8.5 hours. Unfortunately my BF can only work 9-5, and he can't change that. Currently I work 8-4.

Happy, I don't see how living in a house would make having the dog alone any better? Did I miss something?

I know the law on noise in apartments, and I know that a barking dog is not a reason to evict someone. Besides, we are an end apartment, so no one should hear him. And as long as it is between 7 am and 11 pm, all noise is allowed. Trust me! I have a VERY loud neighbour who has his R&B super subwoofer playing most evenings and days when I am home. I spoke to the landlord and police about it and they said that as long as it's between 7 and 11, there is nothing they can do.

Besides, we aren't planning on staying in this apartment much longer.

Lucky, this is what the guy said: I would recomend 4 walks, 1 when you get up, one before you head out the door for work and the 2 after work, each one hour Unfortunatley, I only have the guys name, and not which rescue he was working for. It was out of Georgetown I think.

Shamrock
January 26th, 2005, 03:00 PM
You offered a sincere, honest and forthright inquiry.
There was no offense intended I'm sure, but the preachy tone of the reply suggests you are not a suitable home for any dog, and underscores it by suggesting a cat.
I'd be very offended and hurt too.

Of course the people at rescues are trying to 'guage ' the big picture based on what you have offered. They've seen so many who've not clearly thought out all the ramifications, and they know who suffers for it in the long run.
Problems that may arise from long absences from home is one of valid. concern, but as mentioned.. just being in the home doesnt necessarily guarantee anything other than human presence, and some dogs are able to manage better on their own more than others.

I think the absence factor in conjunction with the misudnerstanding about your walking intentions led to the wrong "impression" being given.

To be fair, I do understand that when you're overworked, stressed and pressed for time - its not always possible to consider and weigh your words in any great depth for how they "might' be percieved..
Perhaps some "pre-set" text addressing some of the more common issues might be an idea, kept on file for the many inquiries from the public.

Good luck with the Greyhound rescue, Raingirl. I too find it extremely odd that they would suggest a schedule of 4 hours per day walking. That's a pretty tall order for anyone's schedule. Let us know how this proceeds wont you?

.

happycats
January 26th, 2005, 03:06 PM
Rain, what I meant when I said living in a house would be better for a dog is:
You could (as my brotherinlaw did) install a doggie door (he has a fenced in yard) so the dog could at least go out when it gets bored, and to relieve itself. Also minus 30 weather would not be an issue if you could just open your door and let the dog go out into a fenced in back yard.
In my opinion a house with a fenced in back yard is a more ideal place for a dog then an apartment. (don't get me wrong, I didn't say people in apartments shouldn't own dogs)
I also believe things happen for a reason, and patience is a virtue.
Maybe your furry soulmate has not yet been found !! :)

I do wish you all the best, and maybe you or your b/f will get a job closer to home, or get a home closer to your job, or better yet you may win the lottery!!!!!!! and none of this will ever be an issue!! and then you can rescue lots of furbabies :thumbs up

raingirl
January 26th, 2005, 03:11 PM
hahaha. that reminds me, better buy my 649 ticket for tonights draw!!!

I get what you mean. However, being that I work in insurance, I would never install a doggy door. The increase break in rates by 600% (last I heard).

And I don't mind taking the dog out for his business, that's no problem for me. In fact, I think I wouldn't be as active with my dog if I had a house, as I would be more inclined to exercise him the yard instead of going for a nice long walk. But then again, I don't own a house yet (one day, hopefully soon I will!)

mastifflover
January 26th, 2005, 03:11 PM
but if I lived in an apartment, and worked 9.5 hours a day, I would not get a dog, as I don't think its fair expect a dog to hold it all day,(God knows I can't!! ) nor would I want to have it caged all day. And all it would take is 1 neighbor to complain, and it's either you or the dog goes!! .
Happycat I have to disagree on this and not going to jump down your throat you are just giving your opinion. Buddy before coming to me was a dog that was kept in an auto shop he lived there he was taken for 1 walk a day and if he had an accident in the garage at night he had the crap kicked out of him in the morning due to these loving beatings he has a chipped rib and is partially deaf in one ear.He was only 2 when I got him so this treatment had gone on for a 1 1/2 years. I am sure he would rather be lying on my bed or his in a nice warm apt. then on a cold floor being ignored all day and night. The time I spend with him is quality and loving. He loves me as all pets do unconditionally as I love him.

happycats
January 26th, 2005, 03:27 PM
Mastiff,
You are right, in your situation, your dog is much better off with you then where he was. (and it just gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling, to know that yet another dog has been spared a horrible abusive life .)

I was just saying that "personally" if I lived in an apt, and was away at least 9.5 hrs a day, I would not be able to have a dog, as I would feel to guilty!
And as I stated in my last post. I didn't say people in apartments shouldn't own dogs.

It is merely my opinion, as it wasn't just the apartment, it was being away at least 9.5 hours a day, that I was refering to

mastifflover
January 26th, 2005, 04:12 PM
I do wish you all the best, and maybe you or your b/f will get a job closer to home, or get a home closer to your job, or better yet you may win the lottery!!!!!!! and none of this will ever be an issue!! and then you can rescue lots of furbabies
This would be the best solution

meb999
January 26th, 2005, 04:36 PM
I know just how frustrating searching for a furbaby can be, although most of my bad experiences were with snooty breeders.

I don't see why someone would expect you to be home all day for your dog. you have to work, everyone has to work...and you shouldn't feel guilty about bringing home the bacon!

My father is retired, he has a Springer Spaniel puppy (bought from a petstore.. :mad: ). These are HIGH energy dogs and my dad stays home ALL day long with him. Harry (the terrible Springer!!) sleeps almost eight hours during the day. So, what would be the difference if my dad left for eight hours?

I think this was probably just a miscommunication. Don't give up on rescue. I'm sure if dogs could talk they would prefer to live with you, than being put down at a shelter. Thousand of dogs are pts at the SPCA -- these guys need loving homes.
good luck, raingirl....I know EXACTLY what you're going through!

lil_kirk
January 26th, 2005, 04:50 PM
I feel your stress Raingirl. We are in the same situation. Life is not what is used to be it seems---we HAVE to work 40 hours a week nowadays to afford living, eating, driving, etc. Not to mention, we have to work simply to pay off student debt. If my fiance and I weren't both working full time we wouldn't have the money to even consider having a dog, let alone an apartment to live in---working shortened hours would only allow us enough money to pay off debt and live in a box.

Many of these rescue dogs and shelters dogs are yearning for a home like yours or ours. If the situation they were in before was so great they wouldn't have turned up in a resuce....like the situation Mastiff described Buddy being in before...

Your warm, loving and safe home--though void of people during the day--could be far greater than where they were...or where they might end up if not adopted.

Bearsmom
January 26th, 2005, 05:01 PM
I feel kind of bad. Bear is in the house for 11 hours when I'm on days and hubby's working. Does this make me a bad dog owner?

Raingirl, don't worry, you'll find a lovely pet soon.

mastifflover
January 26th, 2005, 05:05 PM
Bearsmom NO you are not a bad mom don't even think that

foster-in-ON
January 26th, 2005, 05:26 PM
we HAVE to work 40 hours a week nowadays to afford living, eating, driving, etc. Not to mention, we have to work simply to pay off student debt. If my fiance and I weren't both working full time we wouldn't have the money to even consider having a dog, let alone an apartment to live in---working shortened hours would only allow us enough money to pay off debt and live in a box.

Many of these rescue dogs and shelters dogs are yearning for a home like yours or ours. If the situation they were in before was so great they wouldn't have turned up in a resuce....like the situation Mastiff described Buddy being in before...

Your warm, loving and safe home--though void of people during the day--could be far greater than where they were...or where they might end up if not adopted.

Very well said Lil Kirk. It is simply a shame that some over zeleous rescues are the drivers that send people in the direction of pet stores and classified ads instead of adopting.

In my opinion most of the adoption applications are very intrusive...asking very personal questions. Vet references and personal reference's and a home visit IMO should be suffice. Visiting a family in their home and having a good quality relaxed conversation with them will tell you what you need to know, without the 101 personal questions upfront that have scared many away.

If I were adopting to you Raingirl, I would ask for 2 references, a vet reference, talk with you over the net in a relaxed fashion, do a home visit with you, spend some quality time at your home, and decide from there.

Raingirl, the dog you were inquiring about is probably missing out on a wonderful loving forever home with you. IMO, it is the dog that is losing out. Thank goodness you will be persistant and eventually will get a rescue....because I can tell, you more times than not, the person in your position heads to the pet store or the classifieds in frustration.

Lucky Rescue
January 26th, 2005, 05:36 PM
I just got an answer from someone who has been rescuing and rehoming greyhounds for many years and is a very respected person.
------------------------------------------------------------------

"The apartment does not bother me, greyhounds like smaller places, they are used to being in a crate all their lives, so prefer smaller places. They actually do very well in apartments.

As for the 9 hour day, I think that is really too long for a greyhound to be by itself, even with the 1/2 hour walks, 9 hours is still 9 hours.

It is too long to expect the dog to wait to relieve himself.... I know I could not go 9 hours......., so I do not expect pets to do it either. It really is a lot to ask of any pet.

Some greys can go that long without a problem, and I know I have some that do, but I do not think it is right, very hard on the kidneys.....
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

LL1
January 26th, 2005, 10:25 PM
Thanks for posting that Lucky.Alot of criticism from people who aren't in the trenches.

Spurby
January 26th, 2005, 11:53 PM
Very well said Lil Kirk. It is simply a shame that some over zeleous rescues are the drivers that send people in the direction of pet stores and classified ads instead of adopting.

In my opinion most of the adoption applications are very intrusive...asking very personal questions. Vet references and personal reference's and a home visit IMO should be suffice. Visiting a family in their home and having a good quality relaxed conversation with them will tell you what you need to know, without the 101 personal questions upfront that have scared many away.

If I were adopting to you Raingirl, I would ask for 2 references, a vet reference, talk with you over the net in a relaxed fashion, do a home visit with you, spend some quality time at your home, and decide from there.

Raingirl, the dog you were inquiring about is probably missing out on a wonderful loving forever home with you. IMO, it is the dog that is losing out. Thank goodness you will be persistant and eventually will get a rescue....because I can tell, you more times than not, the person in your position heads to the pet store or the classifieds in frustration.

Interesting post.

Your first sentence is something i have heard before..and quite frankly i am surprized so many people say this.
Why oh why do you blame rescues for other peoples actions??? You, ME, everyone, is responsible for their own actions, plain and simple, stop blaming rescues when someone decides to go to a pet store instead.

And did you ever stop to think some of those people who rescue refuse to adopt to actually might not be suitable to adopt to?(that is not directed at you raingirl, since i do not know you)

twodogsandacat
January 27th, 2005, 12:39 AM
I think that it depends on the dogs and the home. I now leave mine (twodogs) alone for eight hours and twenty minutes every day. No problems at all. I used to come home at lunch and they would look at me like 'what are you doing here?'

I also walk for at least an hour a night no matter the weather and own clothing I wouldn't own for any other reason.

I have only had problems when I needed to go in to work for a few hours every night for about two weeks. I was home more hours in total but I ended up throwing off the dog's schedule.
.

lil_kirk
January 27th, 2005, 07:10 AM
Spurby--to clarify, what I meant was that for those of us who want to rescue but who cannot because of these reasons, may go to a pet store or a byb.

If a dog is what is truly wanted, and yet not afforded the opportunity by rescues, then yes, buying from a BYB or pet store might be the only option. As you may know, many breeders will not sell their dogs to people who work during the day too...leaving only two remaining options for people--pet stores or byb's.

I did not say that ALL people who buy from pet stores and or byb's are doing this because of rescues. I said that this is exactly the reason why people in the situation that raingirl is in might feel like byb's and pet stores are the only route she can take to get her furbaby.

I also did not say that this was a good route to take...

mona_b
January 27th, 2005, 08:11 AM
raingirl,I understand your frustration in all this.You sound like a very warm hearted and caring person.And I know you just want to give a dog a loving home. :)

To a point I can understand about the 9 hour thing.The dogs in rescues are around the rescuers most of the day.So they have someone around most of the time.So when someone wants to rescue one,they want to make sure that when they are adopted,this person will have the time to to help ease the dog into the new home.Did any of this make sense?..LOL..Sorry,it's been a rough night.

As for the breeder part lil_kirk,not always true.I was 18 years old when I got my first GSD.the breeder I dealt with knew what my career plans were.She new I was joining the force.I spent many months talking to her and seeing her before the breeding took place.When I lost Cujo at 13,I did go back to her.And I got Yukon and Tron.A close friend of the family was also working when he got his Afghan.His sister showed Afghans.So he got into it.His breeder had no problems either.And Cash is one point from a champion.But,he did have a walker come in and take Cash out for walks and feed him his lunch.Breeders do know that people do work during the day.Especially those in the showing part.That's because they themself work and show.

raingirl,is there anyway you can hire a dog walker?

raingirl
January 27th, 2005, 08:38 AM
I would love to hire a dog walker, but I have found none (except a teen in my building, but I would not trust that!). There is one that I found that is way north of me, but they charge $25 per day and that is way too much for me to spend.

In a 2 years my neice could do it, as her junior high school is right behind where I live. But then again, I probably won't be living where I am now in 2 years, as we hope to buy a house by then.

mastifflover
January 27th, 2005, 09:00 AM
Thanks for posting that Lucky.Alot of criticism from people who aren't in the trenches.
Your right but you also have to see the other side. I have no problem with home visits, a million questions, references. I also want the dogs to go to good homes but I think a lot of dogs are sitting in cages because some rescues are not realistic about people working. They want someone to be home well that would eliminate anyone who is single and works from rescuing a dog. So they eliminate that segment of the population then you move to couples only one can work if both work eliminated as well then you have stay at home moms they have kids a lot under 10 so most rescues will not adopt to them. They have left themselves with a very small segment of the population to rescue and give these dogs forever homes. Maybe you are lucky enough to work part time but if I or most of us did that we would not be able to afford to live never mind have a pet to take care of. I have been in the trenches and I luckily have worked with people who are concerned with finding loving forever homes. I work full time, I love my dog and can provide food, shelter and veterinary care and a safe home. If dogs and cats could talk and you asked them if they would rather be in foster care or a shelter or shuffled around or in the end be pts, or last choice be in one home and be alone for 9 hours a day and have quality time and food and shelter what do you think they would want. They are kept in cages in shelters and some are there so long they are deemed unadoptable. So many rescues get shuffled around they end up with behaviour problems then they go to homes and are returned.
The way some of the rescue workers talk to people is downright rude. When I first got involved and decided to rescue I had applied for a few different dogs and one rescue called and introduced herself first question was do you have a backyard? No I don't. Sorry you are not a candidate for our dogs no explanation dial tone. There were numerous calls like this well I do not take to being treated rudely well. I phoned back and asked that the person who runs the rescue to call me. She did I told her about the call and how put off I was by that type of attitude. By the way the dog in question was a senior Great Dane which does not make a giant breed very adoptable at 6 years old. The woman was very nice and we talked and she was willing to adopt him to me but in the end the dog had a problem with stairs and I live 2 floors up. But by not giving me a chance and talking to me they eliminated me because I didn't have a backyard. Which by the way dogs in apartments probably get more exercise then dogs in houses. I realize the rescues and the people who work at them are overworked and there is not enough help but this type of attitude is not winning them any points and will send people who are not as concerned about saving a dog and not supporting puppymills and byb to pet stores and the ads in the paper. Personally I could have been just as rude but that would not get me a dog. That was my rant.

lil_kirk
January 27th, 2005, 09:08 AM
I realize that not all breeders ask about work--however to be fair, we have in fact been denied before even meeting with breeders based on our hours of work....

Anyways, this is not really the issue that Raingirl is having--just an offshoot comment I made...I apologize.

Lucky Rescue
January 27th, 2005, 10:17 AM
first question was do you have a backyard? No I don't. Sorry you are not a candidate for our dogs no explanation dial tone.

That is inexcusable!!

I personally don't think the lack of a backyard should disqualify anyone. In fact, for some people, having a fenced yard is an excuse to never walk the dog or even properly housetrain it. The dog is stuck in the yard and basically forgotten.

I have a huge yard but it had no fence when I started fostering, then wanting to adopt a dog. I explained that any dog would live in the house with me, and have numerous walks on leash. That was satisfactory.

I personally do not agree with dogs being kept in small cages all day, and if no one is home, they need to adopt an adult dog who can have run of the house, or even part of the house.

For a dog who is living in a shelter situation, or on death row, I think being alone during the day in a comfortable home is definitely a better option. I too worry about the physical effects of a dog not being able to relieve itself for 9 hours, and think it can't be pleasant. I was very unhappy and guilty when my own dog had to do that.

Rescues aren't just looking for any home, but for the best home possible. For animals who have been abused, neglected and dumped (often more than once) finding a wonderful home is the only goal.

Many many dogs do stay alone during the day, but if it were possible for someone to come and even take it out midday for even 10 or 15 minutes, then I see no problem.

Raingirl - a senior who loves dogs but cannot have one of his own might be the perfect person to take a dog for a little walk during the day.

raingirl
January 27th, 2005, 10:22 AM
I just wanted to thank everyone for their responses. At least I don't feel alone.

I did hear back from the rescue. Where the confusion started is that the dog was listed as "young" on petfinder, but was actually just a small puppy, which wasn't listed in the info. We had a nice conversation but were unable to resolve the 9 hour issue. At least it was amicable.

I sent a suggestion to petfinder that they should change their system a little, suggesting they provide a section explaining what the different age and size catagories actually mean, as I think (maybe Lucky can clarify this) that it's all relative when a post is put up on petfinder, meaning that the rescue puts down what they think the dog is (i.e., a small dog to one person is a yorkie or chi, but to another, a JRT. If you look at what is under "small" "medium" and "large" you will see there is a big difference in what people consider small, medium or large)

I also suggested they should have "check box" systems, sorta like when you are looking for an apartment. There should be boxes like "house trained" "altered" "good with kids" "good with cats/small animals" "good with other dogs" as sometimes when people write their little blurb, they forget some things, which is why we have to email to ask questions in the first place.

Lucky Rescue
January 27th, 2005, 10:56 AM
ON my Petfinder listings, each one does have symbols indicating if the animal should not go to a home with dogs, cats, or kids under 5. Also stated is if the animal is spayed/neutered.

You can see this clearly on this listing I just put up for a JRT.(I don't know her weight, but all JRTs I would classify as "small")
Gidget (http://www.petfinder.org/pet.cgi?action=2&pet=3936543&adTarget=468petsgeneral&SessionID=41f91b7c4213b571-app3&display=&preview=1&row=0&tmpl=&stat=)

As for breed of dog, if it's not purebred, that is purely the guess of the rescue.

For size, to me a JRT is "small", a Springer Spaniel would be "medium" and a GSD sized dog would be large. Giant breeds - Great Danes,etc - would be "Extra large".

As for age, depends on the animal. I would call a 6 month old cat "young", but would call a 6 month old Golden a "baby".

But these are all just my definitions and someone else may have their own. I usually put the animals' age right in the description as well.

ETA: I must say that a great number of people do not read ANYTHING I write. They seem to just look at the picture then email. For example on a listing for a litter of kittens I put up, I wrote in large letters with stars around it *WE DO NOT ALLOW THE DECLAWING OF ANY CATS OR KITTENS ADOPTED FROM US** We then got an email from someone asking how soon a kitten he wanted to adopt could be declawed. :rolleyes:

Katherine1
January 27th, 2005, 11:07 AM
Raingirl - a senior who loves dogs but cannot have one of his own might be the perfect person to take a dog for a little walk during the day.

This sounds like a good idea raingirl. You may not know anyone now but that person could be close by and you not even know them yet. Just my thoughts. :)

raingirl
January 27th, 2005, 11:20 AM
I guess that is what I mean. It's all subjective instead of objective.

I see what you mean about the info, but it should be presented better (sorry, I live with a graphic designer). The no cats/dogs/kids icons are great, but you can't search on petfinder for those criteria. For instance, when I am looking for a dog, I need one that is ok with other dogs and cats because I need to use the local dog park for exercise, and my dogsitter has cats. I see a lot of posts on petfinder where they say they are not cat friendly in the text, but don't use the little icon. Or they don't say anything at all. I inquired about a couple of dogs and got pretty far in the process, but when I asked if they were good with cats (which I almost forgot to do) they said no, and I had to forget the whole thing.

I know petfinder is non-profit, and there really isn't a way to regulate what they put down, but I think that if rescuers who post there are more thorough when they post, they would also save a lot of time.

But then again, there are the people, like you said, that just ignore what is written.

I would love to find someone I can trust to take the dog out, but I don't know where I could find that person. I don't really go out much, and don't know anyone where we live, other than family who live in the same city.

Lucky Rescue
January 27th, 2005, 11:57 AM
Hmmm...the "no cats" thing is something else. If I'm not 100% sure that the dog is fine with cats and won't chase or bother them, or have actually seen it with cats, then I say "No Cats". This is for the safety of both dogs and cats.

I know of a rescue who said about a dog that he's gentle and good with people and other dogs "so should be fine with cats." I would never say, assume, or imply that. WE don't need someone who is furious and grief stricken calling and saying the dog we gave them just killed their cat.

Some people, if told that a dog is good with cats, will just walk it in the house and turn it loose with their cats.

Better safe than sorry.

LL1
January 27th, 2005, 12:29 PM
I do see the other side.I work,as do most of the families who have adopted from me.I don't have any problem with someone working full time.And rudeness comes from both sides,can't tell you how many nasty calls and mesages I've been sent.
Your right but you also have to see the other side. Maybe you are lucky enough to work part time but if I or most of us did that we would not be able to afford to live never mind have a pet to take care of. The way some of the rescue workers talk to people is downright rude.

Lucky Rescue
January 27th, 2005, 12:59 PM
And rudeness comes from both sides,can't tell you how many nasty calls and mesages I've been sent.

Yup. We also get threats and verbal abuse from people if we don't instantly run out at any hour of the night or day to cheerfully pick up someone's unwanted pet. The threats usually consist of them saying they will do anything from dumping the animal on the street, to killing it. And of course if they do, it's OUR fault.

As for emails, here's one that a rescue got concerning a 100lb American Bulldog listed. It comes from someone named "PlayboyMike".

how to get this dog

That is the email in it's entirety. :p

Bearsmom
January 27th, 2005, 01:26 PM
That's priceless! You'd think they'd maybe put a wee bit of thought into it.

meb999
January 27th, 2005, 01:28 PM
Yup. We also get threats and verbal abuse from people if we don't instantly run out at any hour of the night or day to cheerfully pick up someone's unwanted pet. The threats usually consist of them saying they will do anything from dumping the animal on the street, to killing it. And of course if they do, it's OUR fault.

Oh MY GOD, LUCKY, that's terrible!!

I guess you always have to remember that there are two sides to every story...I guess with all the crap that some rescuers go through, we should understand why they can be a little...ummmm....curt sometimes. I would be too if I did and saw what they do!

I guess the important thing is communication -- it's misunderstandings which seem to be at the root of the problem.

I think it's great that you haven't given up the idea of rescue, Raingirl. Not everyone is as persistant as you are. My father had a really bad experience with a breeder and ran to the petstore 2 days later and bought a pup...he's not a bad person--he's actually pretty fantastic (I'm a little biased! and he's a great dog owner -- but he decided he shouldn't have to jump through a million hoops to get a furbaby. Unfortunetly, miscommunications can lead to people getting discouraged and ending up at a petstore :sad:

Raingirl -- for the nine hours, maybe if you get a smallish dog like a greyhound, you could teach to go in a large litter box...apparently dogs can learn pretty easily to go in a box...although, I've never tried, so I can't give you any advice on how to do it!!

Lucky Rescue
January 27th, 2005, 01:45 PM
maybe if you get a smallish dog like a greyhound,

Greyhounds can be up to 80lbs and would not be considered small by anyone. :p

I don't think I would use a litterbox for anything bigger than a Chi or a toy poodle.

shihtzulover
January 27th, 2005, 02:14 PM
Hi Raingirl
I know smaller dogs are hard to come by in rescue, but if you are able to find one, you would be able to train it to go in a litter type box. We trained Sophie by putting her puppy pad inside a litter box, now she always uses it. Its great when its really cold out.
I also don't have to worry about her trying to hold it while we are at work.
Good luck with your search, I hope you find a new baby to love. :)

mastifflover
January 27th, 2005, 02:14 PM
I think she may mean an Italian Greyhound.
I do see the other side.I work,as do most of the families who have adopted from me.I don't have any problem with someone working full time.And rudeness comes from both sides,can't tell you how many nasty calls and mesages I've been sent
I do realize that you deal with ignorant and rude people but so does everybody that deals with the public and none of it is acceptable. But if you haven't even spoken with someone before you get defensive or rude is really unecessary

meb999
January 27th, 2005, 02:17 PM
OOOPS! I was thinking of a Whippet...I get the two mixed up all the time!! :o

I guess even a whippet would be too big for a litterbox then...

what about an italian greyhound?

meb999
January 27th, 2005, 02:20 PM
HAHA...you read my mind Mastiff!

Shamrock
January 27th, 2005, 02:36 PM
Those who work with rescue have my utmost respect and my deepest admiration. You are angels, the good you do speaks for itself. Though we all love animals, this takes a dedication and stamina that is in a class all by itself.

The frustration level in dealing with people must be immense.
Rude, demanding or downright thoughtless inquiries, threats of dumping their animal if not taken off their hands immediately.. un-believable!
Have to just shake your head at people's inexcusable behaviour sometimes :(

You really do have to walk a mile in someone elses shoes....

Raingirl, I agree, you do sound like you have much love and warmth to offer a dog, and could provide a loving and caring home.I hope the obstacles in your path can be overcome, and a successful match can be found for you.