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Belle not listening on walks

SarahLynn123
January 21st, 2005, 04:19 PM
How do I make Belle listen to me? She refuses to do the simplest things when shes on a leash. She knows how to sit and is very good at it but anytime on a walk when we are stopped at a busy intersection and I tell her to sit and its as if she pretends to not even hear me. When we get into the house and I tell her to sit so I can remove her harness its the same thing. Ive tried to push her bum down but she refuses Im afraid I will hurt her if I push her too hard. What should I do? Last time we were on a walk and she wouldn't sit for me (I tried a long time, she is very stubborn) I just picked her up and carried her a few steps because I know she hates that, put her down and tried again. She got it finally and sat, but is there a better way? I dont want to use treats and bribe her to sit. She will be 7 this year, cockerspaniel X, and Ive had her for a few or more months now if that helps any.
Thanks

Cinnabear
January 22nd, 2005, 12:09 AM
Do you try and reward her with treats when attempting to to sit? It may take a week for her learn with the reward system or sooner if she is a fast learner. :thumbs up

SarahLynn123
January 22nd, 2005, 06:57 PM
She is a fast learner, but Id rather not have her listen to me becasue Im holding a treat. Id like her to listen no matter what. She also prefers walks more then treats so if she has to sit to get a treat, she will just carry on the walk without one. Stubborn girl!

tenderfoot
January 22nd, 2005, 09:40 PM
The 1st step to having your dog listen to you is creating the right relationship: Love, Trust & Respect. People are great at working on the love, but not so good at the trust and respect. If you have the proper relationship your dog will listen to you. There are 4 levels to this relationship: Level 1 – inside your house, Level 2 – outside your house, Level 3 – distances & Level 4 – distance &/or distractions. At the higher levels there is an adrenalin rush from the sights, sounds and stimulus.Many dogs that are treat trained, end up working for treats not the person. These dogs usually don’t work as well at Levels 3 or 4. The bribery doesn’t always work as well at those levels.
Being physical and pushing a dog’s bottom down will work if you’re strong enough, but the dogs’ brain did not choose to sit. That’s the big difference! We work on creating different kinds of pressure to get the dog to choose to sit & use his brain. This is how dogs communicate with each other, it’s completely natural. How to use pressure & release is extremely important. Eye contact, distance, startle-noises, irritation among a few can all be forms of pressure.
Your leadership role is key. Your dog, the follower, should look to you, the leader, naturally for advice before they react in any situation. If your dog doesn’t perform what you ask of them, they are challenging you - lack of relationship. Giving your dog more things to do, jobs we call them, puts you in a leadership role. The leader makes decisions. The more free time a dog has the more independent, insecure, & impatient they will likely become. We do many relationship drills first. Then everything else comes easy.

SarahLynn123
January 24th, 2005, 11:07 AM
thanks, that makes sense! Back to working on level 1!

tiernan
January 25th, 2005, 12:06 PM
Ok, cool ... this is the level I am working on too ...

What are relationship drills? and what are some examples of drills?

What kind of 'jobs' can you give your dog? How can you exert your alpha dog status better?

If there are two people + dog in house, is their only one leader of the pack in the dogs eyes? How can my husband and I in our house support this? (These may be silly questions, but I am trying to understand)

Thanks for any assistance/guidance you may be able to provide in the matter.

tenderfoot
January 25th, 2005, 04:31 PM
Thanks for asking!
Relationship Drills place boundaries on a dog. ie the 'Stay Close' drill teaches him never to pull on the leash and to stay close to the leader. The 'two-step dance' drill teaches him never to cross the leaders toe line when walking and to stay close. The 'Out' drill teaches respect for the leader. It creates imaginary boundaries that the dog must stay in or out of according to the leaders wishes. The dog is asked to choose these behaviors on their own out of respect for the leader. We do not bribe them or force them, but we are very clear about right & wrong choices. Once the dog understands these drills it can bring on tremendous changes in their attitude. They watch the leader almost constantly which eliminates most problems.
We don't really talk too much about being an Alpha - too many people connect aggressive behavior to the word. We say be a great leader and decision maker - just like an awesome parent.
With 2 people and 1 dog you have a pack of three - you are both leaders to the dog. He will watch you and know who is the leader between you - sometimes it's you at dinner time and sometimes its him in the back yard - it can change according to the situation, but the dog is alway being lead by either of you. And he will respect one you you more highly than the other. Not the person who feeds him or plays all day with him, but the one who works him and is clear and consistent. But if you were on 1st base and hubby were on 3rd base and the dog was on home plate and you both called him to come - he would have to choose and it would be the person who has impressed him the most.
It's all about relationship. However, if you are working the dog and hubby comes home, the dog should not blow you off and run to him and visa-versa. By each of you developing a good, balanced relationship the dog should listen to whom ever is talking to him at the time - good manners!
Jobs are anything you ask your dog to do and he does it. Sit, stay, shake, go to bed, get out of the kitchen, get into the kitchen, etc... But he should have a healthy working vocabulary of at least 40 words, and you need to use them a lot. It's fine for Doug and I to be together all day, but if we aren't communicating then our relationship will start to weaken - communicating keeps us connected and balanced
Does that make sense & does it help?

tiernan
January 25th, 2005, 05:53 PM
Relationship Drills place boundaries on a dog. ie the 'Stay Close' drill teaches him never to pull on the leash and to stay close to the leader. The 'two-step dance' drill teaches him never to cross the leaders toe line when walking and to stay close. The 'Out' drill teaches respect for the leader. It creates imaginary boundaries that the dog must stay in or out of according to the leaders wishes.

Ok understood, so how do I teach her these, teach myself these? :o

It's all about relationship. However, if you are working the dog and hubby comes home, the dog should not blow you off and run to him and visa-versa. By each of you developing a good, balanced relationship the dog should listen to whom ever is talking to him at the time - good manners!

Ok, again, how do I teach her these specific drills such as sit, stay, shake etc. (Is it ok to use her toy or is this the same as treat training?)

Thanks for your time and expertise.

tenderfoot
January 25th, 2005, 08:09 PM
The best and fastest way for you to understand our training would be to get our DVD - but until then I will begin with understanding pressure & release.
Dogs cummunicate through a system of pressure & release of pressure. Pressures are things like: startles, irritations, distance, voice tone, body language.
We try to create an action and then give a word and/or hand signal. For instance, you can cause a dog to sit by standing in front of the dog and just looking at its bottom and leaning in to it. When the dog sits you stand up (releasing the pressure) and look into his eyes and softy say 'good sit' as his reward. If this is not enough pressure to cause him to sit then you could point to his bottom and just wait, he should look up at you, feel the pressure on his rear and move it down. Or you could go to the next level of pressure and give little irritating dinks on the side of his collar until he moves his bottom down. The very second he performs you stop the dinks and release the pressure and your done. He will learn that challenging you by not sitting will bring pressures to him, while doing as you ask feels good - so he picks the 'feel good' place. You do not make him sit - you bug him until he sits. If you force a dogs' bottom down then he did not choose the behavior and his brain did not learn. He will think "this is what the human must do to get me to sit". Instead I want him to think "ah, this is what I must do to please my leader".
Dogs have clear relationships with each other and they don't use treats as rewards in their communication. They use touch and play. We use treats only as lures or distractions but not rewards. Toys can also be used as lures, distractions and rewards. Toys are better than treats as a reward because it is about play and playing with you is part of your relationship. As the leader you start and stop the play at your whim. With treats its supply & demand - he demands it you supply it. Usually a treat trained dog is reluctant to perform if you don't supply the treat.

SarahLynn123
January 26th, 2005, 01:59 PM
I had all those same questions, thanks for the help