Important Bills 132 Info & Link

The following information was received from Kendra Coulter, an NDP MPP.

I want to ensure you know the details about the public hearings on Bill 132 in case you wish to request to present, or submit comments in writing. The information from the committee web site is below, and groups are given 15 minutes to present, individuals 10 minutes.

You can also send your request/submission by email to Doug, the committee clerk at douglas_arnott@ontla.ola.org

Notice of Hearings:

BILL 132 - PUBLIC SAFETY RELATED TO DOGS STATUTE LAW AMENDMENT ACT, 2004

PROJET DE LOI 132 - LOI DE 2004 MODIFIANT DES LOIS EN CE QUI CONCERNE LA SÉCURITÉ PUBLIQUE RELATIVE AUX CHIENS

The Standing Committee on the Legislative Assembly will meet to consider Bill 132, An Act to amend the Dog Owners' Liability Act to increase public safety in relation to dogs, including pit bulls, and to make related amendments to the Animals for Research Act. Hearings are scheduled to be held in Toronto on Monday, January 24, and Thursday, February 3, 2005, in Barrie on Thursday, January 27, and in Brantford on Wednesday, February 2, 2005.

Interested people who wish to be considered to make an oral presentation on Bill 132 should contact the Committee Clerk by 12:00 noon on Wednesday,January 19, 2005. Those who do not wish to make an oral presentation but who are interested in commenting on the Bill may send written submissions to the Committee Clerk at the address below by 5:00 p.m. on Thursday, February 3, 2005.

Copies of the Bill may be purchased through Publications Ontario at 1-800-668-9938, or at (416) 326-5300 in Toronto. An electronic version of Bill 132 is also available on the Legislative Assembly website at:www.ontla.on.ca. http://www.ontla.on.ca/documents/Bills/38_Parliament/Session1/b132_e.htm

Bob Delaney, MPP
Chair/Président
Douglas Arnott
Clerk/Greffier
Room 1405, Whitney Block/Bureau 1405, édifice Whitney
Queen's Park, Toronto ON M7A 1A2
Telephone/Téléphone: (416) 325-3506
Facsimile/Télécopieur: (416) 325-3505
TTY/ATS: (416) 325-3538

Collect calls will be accepted.

The first one in TO is on Monday.
Anyone going?

Does anyone know the location and exact time of the hearing in Barrie on the 26th?

I haven't seen anything in the papers except for last week, when it said that a location and time had not yet been set.

I'm not going. I'd have to bite my tongue too many times.

I have seen the list of those speaking and it's pretty impressive. The pros are the ones to handle this. I'd be too emotional.

10:00 a.m.
Louise Ellis
10:10 a.m.
Cat & Jack K9 Safety
Cathie Cino
10:25 a.m.
Animal Protection Institute
Barry MacKay, Canadian Representative
10:40 a.m.
City of York
Susan E. Auld, District Clerk, Region of York
10:55 a.m.
American Staffordshire Terrier Club of Canada
Cathy Prothro
11:10 a.m.
National Capital Coalition for People and Dogs
Candice O'Connell, Chair
11:20 a.m.
Peter Orphanos
11:35 a.m.
City of Mississauga
Elaine Buckstein, Director of Enforcement
11:50 a.m.
Association of Animal Shelter Administrators of Ontario
Christine Hartig, President
12:00 p.m.
RECESS
1:00 p.m.
Carol Seljak
1:10 p.m.
Cheryl Smith
1:20 p.m.
Ontario Veterinary Medical Association
Dr. Tim Zaharchuk, President
Doug Raven, Executive Director
1:35 p.m.
Staffordshire Bull Terrier Club of Canada
Clive Wilkinson, President
1:50 p.m.
Banned-Aid
Dawne Deeley, Dog Legislation Council of Canada Representative
2:05 p.m.
Canadian Dog Judges Association
Dr. Richard Meen, Past Chairman of the Canadian Kennel Club Mrs. Mike
Macbeth, Member, Canadian Kennel Club Task Force on Breed Specific Legislation
2:20 p.m.
English Nannies for Dogs Inc.
Diana Fischer
2:35 p.m.
Donna Trempe
2:45 p.m.
Toronto Humane Society
Linda Elmy, Communications Manager
3:00 p.m.
Karl Vaartjes
Melanie Vaartjes
3:10 p.m.
Canadian Kennel Club
Lee Steeves, Chair, Task Force
3:25 p.m.
Dog Legislation Council of Canada
Nelson Ross, Ontario Director
3:40 p.m.
Michelle Johnston
TO BE CONFIRMED
3:50 p.m.
Humane Society of Canada
Michael O'Sullivan, Executive Director
4:05 p.m.
Rottweiler Club of Canada
Tricia Barrett, Ontario Director
4:20 p.m.
Alison Farough
TO BE CONFIRMED
4:30 p.m.
Canadian Federation of Humane Societies
Shelagh MacDonald, Program Director
TO BE CONFIRMED
4:45 p.m.
Ottawa Kennel Club
Francois Bernier, Director
- SUBJECT TO CHANGE

Thanks for the list. Quite impressive.

I will keep my eye on the local papers for any news and post it here if it isn't already up.

W O W, that is an impressive list. I hope there is lots of media.

Donna Trempe is on there too. Hmm I cant wait to see what she says about Bryant and his lack of care about her daughters death just because they where not pits. I hate Michael Bryant. I HATE HIM. I usually don't like to use the word hate. But HATE HATE HATE is all I have for that fool.

Hopefully she stays away from personal attacks and delivers a logical yet emotional appeal for dangerous dog laws that encompass all breeds. I bet she does this.

Any idea how many of those people are for and how many against? Obviously it's impossible to say for the individuals (unless someone knows them), but it would be interesting to get a preliminary idea.

I take about two sick days a year. Today is one of them and I wonder if this has anything to do with it.

As for the organization most are easily identified as anti ban. The individuals are the ones that are hard to figure out.

The first speaker is the mother of a pit attack victim who required 300 stiches. Tough one to follow. Unless of course you can produce the victim of a Shepherd attack with about the same number of stiches.

Donna Trempe is the mother of Courtney Trempe and doesn't support BSL but does want the inquiry recs to be put into law. A brave woman and she wants this done.....right.

The orgs are the pros and they have had success before. Hopefully the committe will see that dogs and bad owners are an issue. Not a breed of dog.
.

Is there any way we could follow this throughout the day. Are they televised or what?? The suspense is killing me over here!

It doesn't seem to be on TV. I guess Bryant won't be there.
.

I don't think it is televised. I think our best bet is to wait until the news crews file thier stories late this aft.

Just saw a clip on CTV. Short - saw thirty seconds of it. Some good points made by anti ban. Still hard to look at a picture of that poor child attacked by a pit...although it was hard to look at a friends' daughter's stiches also (Shepherd attack).
.

[QUOTE=goldenblaze]Interested people who wish to be considered to make an oral presentation on Bill 132 should contact the Committee Clerk by 12:00 noon on Wednesday,January 19, 2005. Those who do not wish to make an oral presentation but who are interested in commenting on the Bill may send written submissions to the Committee Clerk at the address below by 5:00 p.m. on Thursday, February 3, 2005.QUOTE]

I'm thinking of going to the meeting in Brantford. As much as I hate public speaking and the fact that it terrifies me just thinking about it, I feel I must do what I can to defend my best friend, the light of my life....my dog :love: . I need everyone's support, comments and ideas please!!! I'm not a very political person and have really never paid much attention to politics up until now. I have read the bill and I think I understand most of it! All of the mumbo jumbo throws me off now and then :confused: .

In reference to the quote above, do I have to submit a speech? If so I may need help! I have to much to say and am so scatter brained at times I don't know if I'm coming or going!!!! Help me out please!!!! :eek:

Go for it I think a lot of good can come from a responsible owner stating the facts as opposed to the fiction that an unnamed AG spouts

I had to go after a drs appointment so I missed alot but I did see Courtney tremps mother and she was very moving and powerful, at the end everyone applauded her even though that is not allowed in committee, Most of the depositions I heard were positive. The dog leg of Cananda, Toronto Humane Society The canadian head of Humane societys , Rotweller club etc. All in all our voices and our discussions and points that we have been making were made strongly and eloquently but a few of those fibs really just didn't give a ****. They were rude when people were presenting. Peter Kormos and Howard Hampton seemed to be trading off for the NDP and The PC woman who has her own proposal was quite good too. Kormos was talking to the group from the THS outside while I was there talking about a way that the bill could just die if we can keep up the pressure. I just caught the tail end of it and didn't quite understand but I think that if the bill isnt passed by some time in March it could just be dropped I doubt that that would happen but apparantly its a way for "Bryant to save face" while allowing the bill to go away. Unlikely but apparantly possible.

Kormos is from this region and he is very popular although a little non conformist but hey that's not a bad thing. Still he is one of the most honest politicians I have ever met.

Donna Trempe deserves applause. She is looking for REAL solutions.

We do not want the bill to die do we? OR Do we want Bill 132 to die and have a new bill presented that will address the inquiry findings.

I had to go out and totally missed the news. I guess I could buy a TV for the car but how safe would that be?
.

I doubt that the bill will die but now it seems that every community including Toronto is looking at BSL Im really confused as to whats going on in TO because that document we all read from the Board of Health seemed to be anti BSL but when I was at the legislature today the woman from Toronto Humane Society said that some guy from the Board of Health is for BSL. I culdnt get too much info from her because she was about to present and again the lberals brought up in the committee hearings that Miller was for the ban. Peter Kormos was the comedian of the day he cracked jokes alot of the time which really helped since we were all so stressed and emotional.

I just read over the list of speakers you posted Two Dogs and a Cat It was English Nannies for Dogs that spoke about how evil Pit Bulls were. She calls herself a trainer and I believe she might be the one "trainer" that MB might have consulted. I honestly dont even remember her points because we in the back row were busy discrediting her amongst ourselves. Its really scary when anyone can call themselves a dog trainer and then represent themselves as an expert in such a serious situation She started on a tangent about how a pit bulll could bite the hands of a surgeon and ruin his or her life, and called on the government to do something about it. I guess this woman only trains poodles. Someone said shes actually just a dog walker Does any one know of this person?

.. some guy from the Board of Health is for BSL.

It was probably John Fillon(?sp) from the board of health that she was talking about. He has stated publicly that he personally agrees with banning pit bulls.

I just did a search on "English Nannies for Dogs ." It's a dog-sitting service. Couldn't find a web-site. Just the address etc.

I just read over the list of speakers you posted Two Dogs and a Cat It was English Nannies for Dogs that spoke about how evil Pit Bulls were. She calls herself a trainer and I believe she might be the one "trainer" that MB might have consulted. I honestly dont even remember her points because we in the back row were busy discrediting her amongst ourselves. Its really scary when anyone can call themselves a dog trainer and then represent themselves as an expert in such a serious situation She started on a tangent about how a pit bulll could bite the hands of a surgeon and ruin his or her life, and called on the government to do something about it. I guess this woman only trains poodles. Someone said shes actually just a dog walker Does any one know of this person?


An "expert" dogwalker no doubt and just the type of person Bryant would use in his arguments in court while being "drilled" by Ruby , HA .

She's a dog walker alright....don't know if she has any credentials in anything but leashology.

Look here: http://findabusiness.yellowpages.ca/mp/ON/TORONTON/English%2BNannies%2BFor%2BDogs%2BInc/416/6527192/2%2BPinewood%2BAvenue/York/M6C2V1/0/1/0000000000000936860098070007.html

I don't know Toronto. Is this anywhere near Dufferin Park as the dog walkers there seem a little prejudiced.
http://www.dufferinpark.ca/dogs/dogs.html

Next time listen and discredit after. :clown: It wouldn't appear professional to snicker. So did she have an English accent? I once worked with an English guy...no matter what he said in that accent the customers bought it. Somebody should fake an accent. Tally ho.
.

Here is a sound-bite, from Bryant's older propaganda, mentioning her:

"I feel safer knowing that the Ontario government has taken steps to protect us from the extreme danger posed by pit bulls," said Diana Fischer, a victim of a pit bull attack. "The particular problem with pit bulls is the inability to stop them once they have started to attack, the viciousness of their attack and the seriousness of the injuries they inflict. I know this based on my experience as a trainer - through which I've dealt with hundreds of dogs - and my experience being attacked by a pit bull who was trying to kill my own dogs."

http://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.ca/english/news/2004/20041015-pitbulls-nr.asp

OHhhhhhhhhhhhhh, she is not a trainer or a dogwalker she is a "petsitting nannie from Britain" .

Yes Loki she does have an English accent and a very loud voice as well and actually once she started her rant it gave those of us in the back row who were previously not speaking to one another a common enemy so we found out who we all were. The THS was on one side of me and the Staffordshire bull terrier club was on the other. At first it was hard to determine who was friend and who was foe but after she English Nanny started her rant the reactions told the story. And yes the John Fillion not sure of the spelling either is the guy that the THS were worried about. So what is his position and what about the other person who authored the 29 page document that we read? The one that did not seem to suport BSL

I didn't know she was a victim. That's different. You guys shouldn't be mocking victims. They will see their attacker for what it was. I don't know if we can expect more. Is it fair though...lets see.....

AND NOW FOR MY POLITICALLY INCORRECT STATEMENT.
If I told Mr. Bryant my sister was attacked by three youths of colour and now can't stand anyone who isn't white he would throw me out of his office. Rightfully so too. No my sister was never attacked. I was just making a point.

The fact that she was attacked by a pit only shows that she MAY be biased towards pits.

You could hear equally damning testimony regarding Rottweilers, Shepherds, Collies if you listened to the victim. Donna Trempe it seems blames the dog, the actions of the dog, the dogs owner BUT not the breed.

Our friends daughter wouldn't trust a Shepherd if it were pulling her out of a fire...once bit twice shy.

Let's not target the victims. Anyone should be able to listen to their stories and while not agree at least understand.
.

Yes Loki she does have an English accent and a very loud voice as well .

I can't take credit for the english joke. That was twodogsandacat. Very funny and true. Lab coats work well also.
If we could find someone in a labcoat with an english accent that loves pitbulls,
we'd be in buisiness.


And yes the John Fillion not sure of the spelling either is the guy that the THS were worried about. So what is his position and what about the other person who authored the 29 page document that we read? The one that did not seem to suport BSL

I haven't heard much about it. I know Fillon and another councillor( I can't remember her name) say that they personally want a ban. I personally think that they will wait until the province acts before they do anything.

If Fillion wants a ban then we had better check his house for a pit. He berated people for using fertilizer and chemicals but guess how he was keeping his lawn green.

Dang I bet he's got a full 'yard' operation going on. Damn that backyard breeder Fillon. Punk. :yuck:
.

I would certainly agree with you two dogs and a cat if she were not passing herself off as a trainer or some one who is an expert with dogs. If she was there to represent herself as a victim of a pit attack then she certainly has a right to do so but thats not what the presentation was. She was presenting as a professional "trainer" And as a trainer she should have known how to handle herself around dogs, even aggressive ones. She was making the case against pit bulls Stafforshire terriers etc. in general as a so called expert on dogs and dog breeds. I didn't get the impression that she had beeen hurt certainly not seriously. She may be trying to defend her lack of skill by blaming the dogs. She really wasn't a sympathetic character so I guess I just didn't feel the victim thing going on and didn't look at it that way.

I wasn't there, you were. I'll take you word for it though as long as you swear you aren't a liberal.
.

I don't think she was attacked. I think her dog(s) was.

I wasn't there, you were. I'll take you word for it though as long as you swear you aren't a liberal.
.


So I'm wondering, from what I can tell from this thread and numerous others over the course of the last several months (not all BSL related)....is it generally expected that everyone here be an NDP'er? Not CPC, Green, Marxist, or Indep either?!

I'm sure this will cause some hype--and I do apologize, I've just begun to notice this and thought I would ask!

Not that I don't like you people but when did I become a senior member? I think the girlfriend is right. Maybe Bill 132 is consuming much of my time.
.

I under the secret name of Baby Rocky swear that I am not now and never have been and never will be unless they change bill 132 and probably even not then will ever be a LIBERAL! :thumbs up

Ah very good--neither am I--for either red or orange :p

Senior member comes to all of us at a very minimal posting number. I believe there was a thread about this before. A natural worry that people will think "senior member" implies educated knowledge......when in fact it does not! :D

I think that most people on this board have formed their discust with the fibs from this bill, my impression is that some are ex-liberals some non political some PC and Ill admit it I am a card carrieng NDP member. However for the first time ever I am letting one issue determine my political future and that is this one. Obviously the provincial NDP is oppossing this bill as are the Concervatives but it is thier job to oppose, even if they don'tI think both opposition partys have done a good job but if the public opinion holds till the next election what will they do. Thats the real question. Also I have heard rumours that some of the NDP members at City Hall also support BSL. This is one of the reasons I keep asking about whats going on with the city and whos who over there.

I would certainly agree with you two dogs and a cat if she were not passing herself off as a trainer or some one who is an expert with dogs. If she was there to represent herself as a victim of a pit attack then she certainly has a right to do so but thats not what the presentation was. She was presenting as a professional "trainer" And as a trainer she should have known how to handle herself around dogs, even aggressive ones. She was making the case against pit bulls Stafforshire terriers etc. in general as a so called expert on dogs and dog breeds. I didn't get the impression that she had beeen hurt certainly not seriously. She may be trying to defend her lack of skill by blaming the dogs. She really wasn't a sympathetic character so I guess I just didn't feel the victim thing going on and didn't look at it that way.



Agreed from what I was reading she presented herself as an "expert" not as a victim . As a trainer she should know how to recognize agression and be able to take the proper actions to calm the situation .
Also I don't think anyone that was belittling her even knew at the time that her dog had been attacked , we were attacking her credibility and from what I know now she opened the door to it .

So I'm wondering, from what I can tell from this thread and numerous others over the course of the last several months (not all BSL related)....is it generally expected that everyone here be an NDP'er? Not CPC, Green, Marxist, or Indep either?!

I'm sure this will cause some hype--and I do apologize, I've just begun to notice this and thought I would ask!

I use the email address liberal_refugee@hotmail.com, post under ashamed of the liberals, have a blog site name liberals_decieve_Ontario. I am a man without a home. I hope to find one before 2007. The Liberals are so far off of what a Liberal should be...equality and justice.

Peter Kormos is a local polictician in the town where I now live. I plan on moving back into a Liberal riding shortly before the election to vote against a Liberal..even if it means moving in with my brother or parents for a few months. Peter won't need my vote...they love him here. Then I'll move home again.
.
.

Senior member comes to all of us at a very minimal posting number. I believe there was a thread about this before. A natural worry that people will think "senior member" implies educated knowledge......when in fact it does not! :D

Hey! Was that a shot. I am far from educated. :D I hope to take a lot away from this site but for now the job at hand is to vent over BSL.
.

Donna Trempe is the mother of Courtney Trempe and doesn't support BSL but does want the inquiry recs to be put into law. A brave woman and she wants this done.....right.
.

Yet I'm watching CH tonight and they say she wants Bull Mastiffs added to the list. Yet Pulse24 didn't say anything like that, in fact they implied she is anti ban. You just can't trust reporters to get it right can you? I really am starting to question everything I hear on the news.

In fact the Star (don't know how) got it right. “I applaud certain sections of the bill: doubling fines for dangerous dog owners, jail sentences, and giving police and municipal bylaw officers the authority to search for dangerous dogs,” Trempe said.

“What I don’t agree with is banning specific breeds.”
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1106565247587&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154&DPL=IvsNDS%2f7ChAX&tacodalogin=yes
.

You're right, Two Dogs, we shouldn't mock a victim. But what we should be doing is mocking someone who is painting themselves as a trainer and an expert in dog behaviour. This is quite a bit misleading, and a little frustrating as those of us on the other side are trying our best to be factual and upfront.

Oh, and I started this before I realised there was a page 2.

By the way, I've decided to list my political affiliation as Rhino Party. They folded years before I could vote, so I say we should bring them back.

(also thinking of listing my religion as "Jedi")

But do you really think the Jedi mind trick will work on Liberals? Isn't a mind a requirement?
.

But do you really think the Jedi mind trick will work on Liberals? Isn't a mind a requirement?
.

I think even Yoda would get an aneurysm with that one.

"Not too bright, they aren't"

(you have to imagine that in a Yoda voice)

I was at the hearing. Donna Trempe does not support BSL! There was no mistaking it. That is what she said. There must be written records of each presentation so a call for a retraction is a must!

I just re-read your post Two Dogs and a Cat. I think that quote was when she was speaking to the press after the hearing. She was also very clear about her stand against BSL during the hearing. Her bravery and also her willingnes to not judge all dogs by the actions of one is what got her the applause from everyone in the room! It makes me sick to think she was misquoted or misrepresented somewhere. To me she is our most powerful advocate to have gone through what she did might make someone hate all dogs but she even spoke of now owning a german shepherd. She was very clear that she felt the owners of the Mastiff were irresponsible and should have been held accountable. She did at one point become upset and say taht she wished mastiffs were extinct but that was the only time she became emotional and I took that to be expression of emotion and how she felt not what she thought. A big difference. No one took that to mean that she wanted BSL for mastiffs. Again she spoke in very plain English NO BSL.

Has anyone let Ch news know this. I can't find the link to the email address. If I could I would definately email them for a retraction.

I dont even know who CH news is. Where are they based?

Ruby says he will fight pit bull ban in court
One of Canada's most prominent criminal lawyers, Clayton Ruby, says he will fight a ban on pit bulls in court if the Ontario government makes the ban law.
National Post today

I am sorry but if a dog sitter is now considered a trainer and thus in the liberal eyes an expert, I guess we have expert witnesses right here, that would mean those in rescue would also be considered experts. That being said I feel bad about any attack but don't call yourself an expert when you are cleary not. I don't think any of us would consider ourselves experts but we are very knowledgeable and know a lot of facts but would never get up and speak under the guise of being an expert. So far everything I have read has said that Donna is opposed to breed bans even though in the same sentence they try and insinuate she would like Bullmastiffs banned even though she says no to breed bans. I also heard she spoke eloquantly and was
well recieved by all.
CH is in Hamilton

CH: 163 Jackson Street West
P.O. Box 2230, Station A
Hamilton, Ontario, L8N 3A6
(905) 522 - 1101

Select the appropriate link from the list below:

For advertising information: advertising@chtv.ca
For programing information: feedback@chtv.ca
For community events: events@chtv.ca
For news tips: newstips@chtv.ca
For Fred Anderton's You Asked segment: youasked@chtv.ca
For CH Live@12:30 with Mark Hebscher & Donna Skelly: 12:30@chtv.ca
For CH Morning Live: chmorninglive@chtv.ca

CH is the news I heard that made it sound that she was for a breed ban. Im not sure if other news groups have also done so. Thanks Mastifflover.

Ok I sent them an email. I doubt they will retract anything. When I tried to get media to recognize the findings from the cambridge paper boy incident only pulse corrected the breed. I guess there motto is "if its not a pit then it ain't worth ..... " well you can fill in the blanks.

I saw a clip of her on Global news. They showed a sound-bite from what looked like a hallway at Queen's Park. She said something along the lines of: " You don't just go and ban one breed." Her voice was a little bit shaky, and unclear.
The camera immediately cut to footage of a bull-mastiff, and the voice over said " The ban wouldn't have protected Mrs. Trempe's daughter. The breed that killed her daughter isn't banned."


She is definitely against a ban. Alex Peirson interviewed her on the pulse24 special way back when. She agrees with the fines/ search and seizure but not the ban.

Oh I know that Donna Trempe said she is anti ban. I wasn't questioning what she said.

I just don't like how a station can give a totally different impression than a handful of other stations. I know some of you were there I just question if that reporter was there. :confused:

Overall I think it was a pretty good day. I had a lot of people at work today come up to me and tell me it's so obviously a smear campaign, witch hunt, so unfair...etc. Oh my god - I'm the dog guy. That's the masculine equivalent of the cat lady. :D
.

I know what you are saying.
Actually, the first time I saw Global's version it came across like she may have supported the ban. The way they panned immediately to the bull mastiff.


That's the thing that is really eye-opening about the ban etc.
I can't watch the news anymore. When I see a story, I keep thinking about the way the media has created news and not reported it, with the pitbull issue. I find myself questioning everything I hear on the news.
That's probably a good thing though.

I agree Loki I cant believe anything i hear anymore and it was a real eye opener just what kind of influence the media has over the general public. If they had a no nonsense news channel, where they werent just head line grabbers Id be all for it.

There must be written records of each presentation......Hansard record of 1st hearing (http://www.ontla.on.ca/hansard/committee_debates/38_parl/session1/legassembly/M009.htm#P291_51628)