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Judge orders drug addict to stop having children

heidiho
January 5th, 2005, 10:55 AM
ROCHESTER, New York (AP) -- A Family Court judge who last year stirred debate about parental responsibilities ordered a second drug-addicted woman to have no more children until she proves she can look after the seven she already has.

The 31-year-old mother, identified in court papers only as Judgette W., lost custody of her children, ranging in age from eight months to 12 years, in child-neglect hearings dating back to 2000. Six are in foster care at state expense and one lives with an aunt.

The youngest child and two others tested positive for cocaine at birth and all seven "were removed from her care and custody because she could not and did not take care of them," Judge Marilyn O'Connor said in a December 22 decision made public Tuesday.

"Because every child born deserves a mother and a father, or at the very least a mother or a father, this court is once again taking this unusual step of ordering this biological mother to conceive no more children until she reclaims her children from foster care or other caretakers," O'Connor wrote.

In a similar ruling last March, O'Connor ordered a drug-addicted, homeless mother of four to refrain from bearing children until she won back care of her children. The decision, the first of its kind in New York, is being appealed.

Wisconsin and Ohio have upheld similar rulings involving "deadbeat dads" who failed to pay child support. But in other states, judges have turned back attempts to interfere with a person's right to procreate.

O'Connor said she was not forcing contraception or sterilization on the mother, who had children with seven different men, nor requiring her to get an abortion should she become pregnant. But she warned that the woman could be jailed for contempt if she has another child.

The New York Civil Liberties Union maintained that the opinion cannot be enforced because it "tramples on a fundamental right -- the right to procreate."

"There is no question the circumstances of this case are deeply troubling," said the group's executive director, Donna Lieberman. "But ordering a woman under threat of jail not to have any more babies ... puts the court squarely in the bedroom. And that's no place for the government."



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Copyright 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast

heidiho
January 5th, 2005, 10:55 AM
It is about time,i have a serious problem with people that keep having kids that cannot afford them and we have to pay......................

heidiho
January 5th, 2005, 10:56 AM
Oops I Put This Inthe Wrong Place Sorry

whinnie-boo
January 5th, 2005, 11:05 AM
My biggest arguement is always:

YOU SHOULD HAVE TO GET A LICENSE TO OWN A PET OR HAVE A CHILD. :mad:

To often the working public pays for all these stary animals, and welfare for people who are to lazy or drug addicted to get a job. The Canadian :ca: government makes me sick. This woman can keep popping out kids, we pay for them all, and she can keep doing it. Less then 1% of all Pitbulls bite someone and they want to Ban them all. I think the court should be allowed to order her sterilized. Why should we keep paying? The money the Government is taking from every check I get to give to these lazy a*ses would be much better put to use at the Humane society. Humans are the most diguesting species :mad:

Gazoo
January 5th, 2005, 11:40 AM
Good for the judge, except that the wackadoo addict will probably not stop :mad:

I was a Social Worker in Child Protection for almost 10 years and it really frosts my @&* when selfish messed up people like this woman cause all that suffering for those little ones. :mad: :sad:

heidiho
January 5th, 2005, 11:44 AM
I saw a bumper sticker it said CANT FEED EM ,DONT BREED EM....AMEN TO THAT

mastifflover
January 5th, 2005, 11:47 AM
I agree I personally am sick of supporting these lazy sods who sit at home and collect welfare and pop out kids yearly. Good for this judge if you can't afford to take care of them or cannot physically care for them you don't deserve to have them. I think if more people actually said what they thought you would probably find the working class of people are sick of supporting these lazy good for nothings. I am not talking of the people who really need help and greatly appreciate what they get and do look for work. Our system could work if they cut out all the lazy sods.

heidiho
January 5th, 2005, 12:42 PM
Well said Mastiff lover

twinmommy
January 5th, 2005, 02:48 PM
IT"S ABOUT FREAKIN' TIME!!!!! Kudos to the judge!! I think we pay waaay to much attention to "offender's" rights!! What about the victims rights??? Your rights to procreate or to anything else should be negated if you are found guiltyof disgusting behaviour such as this

Hope it stops her...but...how would one enforce that?

heidiho
January 5th, 2005, 03:08 PM
Put her in a chasity belt...............Gid forbid i ever need help form the government,being as i didnt have ten kids i couldnt get any,but being single and working a full time job,i would never get approved for help,,,,

Shannon83
January 5th, 2005, 03:13 PM
Ignorance is bless for most of you, I am sure you all think people like this are not working cause they feel like it and that the get so much money. do you ever consider that some of these people have underlining issues that make it hard for them to work, yes there are some people who don't work cause they don't feel like it but then there are some who can't for personal reason such as abuse as a child that they never got help for or are waiting to get help. just the same as no one wakes up and decide I am going to become a drug addict, just the same as they can't just stop. it can take some times years before someone can stop using. I' be a shame of myself if I was as closed minded as some of you.

heidiho
January 5th, 2005, 03:18 PM
Give me a break,NO i dont feel bad for people that KEEP POPPING OUT KIDS,I can understand one mistake,but you know you have no money you know you have a drug problem,PLEASE ENLIGHTEN ME AS TO WHY IT IS OK TO KEEP HAVING KIDS WHEN YOU ALREADY KNOW YOU CANT AFFORD THE FIRST ONE YOU HAD??????????????????????????????????????????????? ??And i have to pay for your welfare so you can keep having more kids you cant afford

heidiho
January 5th, 2005, 03:18 PM
This woman has 7 kids already and you think that is ok,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,?????????????????????/////

Shannon83
January 5th, 2005, 03:24 PM
No I don't think it's okay she had this many kids but there wouldn't be this many if help had been given to her long before the second one came along. when people are using drugs they don't think about the money it's about getting your next high. I can you don't know anyone who's been throw this and that's why you think the way you do. take there place for a day and maybe your head won't be stuck were it is. that's all I have to say on this.

mastifflover
January 5th, 2005, 03:25 PM
I have known people who have used the system and it works when it is used properly. But sorry Shannon there are a lot of people on the free money train because they are lazy, useless and feel the world owns them a favour and I work 45-65 hours a week and I dont want to support these sponges any longer. If you can't afford one child why do you have seven that most of do not live at home and are supported by the state and she is a drug addict and neglectful of her kids but she can afford drugs. And why do you think I would object to supporting her. I work and cant afford things but I am very happy to support the underbelly of society so they can sit around while I bust my a$$

heidiho
January 5th, 2005, 03:29 PM
You have no clue if i do or not,matter of fact i have had my own drug problem in my 20's,rehab was 800.00 a day,I had to get myself better and i did.........My best friend has a sister going through it right now,she has a 14 year old daughter that her sister has now ,a 4 year old son that the addicted sister has,so i do know alot about this stuff.............NO i do not feel bad after the 4 th 5 th 6 th 7 th kid,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I moved to Kentucky could not find a job,i tried to get assistance that was a big fat no for me,who has worked since i was 15,but i bet you if i had 12 kids i would have gotten help.My issue is with people that are on welfare for years and keep having kids.............................................. ..........

Shannon83
January 5th, 2005, 03:38 PM
I agree with you on those who keep having kids and feel they don't have to work. they should be force to go to work but there no one doing that. but seeing how you do understnd what it's like to be a slave to drugs, maybe you would see things a little different. I'm only 21yrs and have used and been through more stuff then most people will ever see in there life and I understand what this person is going though. mind you I have no kids and have been clean for nearly three years. also it's not like they get much any way.

heidiho
January 5th, 2005, 03:44 PM
Believe me i do understand.....And i never would have brought a child into this world like that......I really dont know what the answer is,but they have got to stop bringing children into the world,and the ones that are bringing children into the world that are crack babies,that should be a serious crime..........................with a severe punishment.......................

mastifflover
January 5th, 2005, 04:08 PM
Well I do also know from experience I was an addict as well. I worked the entire time to support my habit and got myself clean no rehab just plain resolve that I no longer wanted to do this to myself. I applied for help at one point and was told no guess I didn't have a dozen kids to qualify. My apartment was to nice is what the idiot told me they wanted me to move and reapply. I figured why bother with a system who is not interested in helping if you are honest and did it myself. So I do not have a lot of sympathy for these people if you make up your mind to do something don't expect someone to do it for you. I also think if you are on welfare for more than 2 years and have no legitimate reasons then you should not be allowed to collect after the 2 year period. You would need to get your butt off the sofa put the beer in the fridge and get a job

heidiho
January 5th, 2005, 04:19 PM
Mastiff is so right i was up 7 days and said enough of living like this,called charter hospital they wanted 800.. a day,my best friend called my dad he picked me up at 5:00 am and i got myself off of the stuff,lots of walks to the park,going to the library,sleeping ,and avoiding all bad people.........................I was told i could go to a free one,yeah that was a scary place,with alot of scary people,my sympathy is for people who do try..............

Schwinn
January 5th, 2005, 04:25 PM
I'm not going to get too much into what I know except to say that most of the people I grew up with are probably either strung out, in jail or dead. I grew up in this enviroment, so I do know what it's like and my head is still "stuck where it is". I'm not going to get into this whole debate about what a leech on society she is, but I will ask one question:

What is the underlying issue that can't keep her legs shut? And would the help be in the form of duct tape, or rope?

mastifflover
January 5th, 2005, 04:38 PM
I would say sterilize her she has had more than her share and enough is enough. Do you think more children need to be born to this slut sorry but the children should not be made to suffer because of their slutty drug addicted mother.

heidiho
January 5th, 2005, 05:02 PM
Yep,keep them shut.............................................. .......If your children are not enought to make u get help then what is????????????????????????????????????

chico2
January 5th, 2005, 05:07 PM
Mastifflover,I agree with you on that,the children are victims here...I grew up on well-fare,my mom unable to work..dad gone.
One thing I learned,that my life would be different and I worked very hard at it,luckily I was healthy and strong,not everyone is..
Here in Canada well-fare is a joke,it's supposed to get people back on their feet,but how could they when they cannot even pay rent with what they get.
The cat-lady here in Oakville who lives in a van with 9 cats,gets $195/month since she has no rent to pay,she would recieve $535/month if she could find a place to live....and that is a joke!!
I would challenge anyone to live on $535/month,pay rent,food here in Ontario.
I agree,that money is wasted and will be an ongoing thing...she cannot get a job,with no address..so we will be paying probably for the rest of her life,there is no way out for her..she's in her 50's and lost everything but her cats and her old van in a bad divorce.
Of course some people abuse the system,but there are others who don't and anyone of us can end up in trouble and need help one day,that is what it is all about.
I have never begrudged anyone wellfare when they need help,instead we should all be happy,we have jobs(not me anymore!!)we have homes and our health.Now giving our Governer General a 19 million $$$$/year budget,THAT makes me really mad!!!

heidiho
January 5th, 2005, 05:09 PM
You are right some people do not take advantage of it and we shouldhelp them... But the others that dont even try to get off of it,it just isnt fair...................

mastifflover
January 5th, 2005, 05:30 PM
Well said and I agree there are a lot of people who really need help and don't get it because most of it is going to lazy sods and not those who really want to get back on their feet and be responsible for themselves. People on welfare get less now then they did 8 years ago when you got 620.00 a month as a single person more children more money. I feel that those who genuinely want to improve there lives and go to school or trade school should be able to collect welfare till they have finished school and given assistance for 1 year after they graduate. Drop out, no money unless you have a valid reason by approved physicans or shrink. If you are just claiming you have no job you get to recieve it for 2 years maximum and if you have not found a job too bad. Bet there would be a lot less people on welfare if you made it more difficult for those who know how to work the system. Yes they should recieve more money you cannot live on what they give you for rent, food and general living day to day and let alone a metro pass either they supply one or increase monthly rate by 100.00 you cannot possibly afford to buy one on the money they give you. You need transportation to get a job.

heidiho
January 5th, 2005, 05:40 PM
Yep well said..........................

twinmommy
January 5th, 2005, 06:40 PM
What is the underlying issue that can't keep her legs shut? And would the help be in the form of duct tape, or rope?

AS usual, my good buddy has the perfect one liner!! Thanks Schwinn!! :D

I was going to say that's it's a pity we can't just leave it up to Natural Selection!!! lol

But seriously this is not a joke, and as long as there are situations like this, there will always be naive bleeding hearts that pity these skanks, and realists who have had enough.

I agree with Mastiff, well said!! Heidiho too!
And what about those poor children? They must already be soo messed up!!
The definition of insanity is repeating the same thing over and expecting different results........

heidiho
January 5th, 2005, 06:45 PM
You know ok one child could be oops,but two is just bs.....You should know after you already screwed up the first time,Hey why dont i invest in some birth control,nope they just keep getting pregnant and collecting more and more welfare...............................

lil_kirk
January 5th, 2005, 06:53 PM
The bottom line for me is that plenty of disabled or inable people make it to work everyday. They have the drive and desire to make a better life for themselves. Do you think that the adults serving out Big Macs all day at McDonalds are their for their health? They are there because they want to earn their own living...not take from ours.

Futhermore--for those of us who do work everyday, we do not have the luxury of having more babies than we can afford. Similar to the bumper stickers someone already mentioned...if you can't feed em don't breed em (I think that was how it went..).

I for one would like more of my paycheck to come home with me at the end of two weeks...

mastifflover
January 5th, 2005, 07:00 PM
I agree lil kirk I work hard for my money and resent the fact that some crack addict is getting high on my dime. I want to buy things and should be able to but instead we give the government up to 50% of our cheques so they can waste it then they want more at the end of the year. Maybe they should consider who really needs the help and who doesn't. I would not resent it quite so much if it was being used wisely, but thanks if you are going to use my money to buy your crack I would rather be buying a digital camera.

twinmommy
January 5th, 2005, 07:09 PM
No I don't think it's okay she had this many kids but there wouldn't be this many if help had been given to her long before the second one came along.

If we all waited for help to be GIVEN to us....we'd be one sorry bunch of cry-asses now wouldn't we??? :mad:

I'll give her help for her addiction--FINE! Just stop crankin out the innocent children!!!

glasslass
January 5th, 2005, 08:33 PM
The judge should NOT have ordered her not to have more children. She's already proven she is incapable of following the rules. He should have ordered her spayed! :mad:

lil_kirk
January 5th, 2005, 09:29 PM
Hehehehe! so true everyone...so true!

Speaking to someone's comment about giving these people help---I do not believe that giving them money is the right answer. From my previous experiences working in a bank, I would venture to guess that at least 80 per cent of those on social assistance are not educated or determined enough to appropriately budge their cheques. A single person sharing a lower end apartment with another person--receiving a 550 dollar cheque should be able to live on this money. Rent is split in half, groceries in half---they shouldn't have extra money to dine out all the time, shop at the Gap and drive cars, go on trips, etc. Welfare is NOT supposed to be enough money for you to want to stay on it---if it was we'd have an even bigger problem!

If these people are to be helped perhaps we should recall Mike Harris' previous suggestion for Workfare---give them the skills and abilities to actually get ahead instead of giving them money to flatline.

Sneaky2006
January 5th, 2005, 09:45 PM
I agree with a lot that has been said about this woman. But being ordered not to have any more kids probably won't stop her.

On the issue of welfare... I got pregnant at a young age and actually needed help at one point. I was lucky enough to live with my mom in the beginning, otherwise we wouldn't have had a pot to piss in. I applied for welfare for my family, and was denied on all apps. My husband had found a part time job at Taco Bell making $5/hr to support a family and we were told we made too much money to qualify.
At the same time my sister had a friend on welfare driving a benz and buying shrimp every week with her food stamps... something's not quite right here.

lil_kirk
January 5th, 2005, 10:06 PM
The system is flawed. If you work for a living--even making a small paycheque--you are penalized for trying, for trying to move up. If you sit back and do nothing you are given health care, medication, education (in some cases especially if you go to prison), money, access to special programs, etc... If you make even a measley earning, you're denied.

The system is simply just so flawed--and from my experience now working in politics--it will never change.

CyberKitten
January 5th, 2005, 10:24 PM
I really did not want to get into this debate but it saddens me. I find myself angry at the woman herself, at the welfare system in her state and alas, somewhat concerned about the attitudes expressed in this forum about people on welfare.

I have treated many fine young children and their families who happened to be on welfare. Some families actually had to seek social assistance because they needed a health card - so their cancer medications are covered. I myself have referred people to the Minister of Health for assistance. So I really think it is mean spirited to judge everyone on welfare with the same brush.

I too get angry when I see people at the end of the month purchasing convenience foods and cigarettes and cringe when people are on a disability pension and have less wrong with them than me (I have a somewhat serious medical issue but continue to work 70 hour weeks but that is my choice) But the fact remains that many people need and use social assitance payments to eek out a survival and in New Brunswick anyway, it seems to be not the best one.

I just hope that this Judge - in seeking a solution for this one irresponsible woman (who we really do know the background of save for a newspaper report and the last time I posted a newspaper report, it was trashed on this Board so did the "press" get it right this time?) - does not return us to the Dark ages when women really were sterilized by a court order. She needs addiction treatment but she may have already had it -we do not know the case history. What is her level of education, was she abused as a child, is she intellectually challenged? For me, there is too much missing information to make a judgement call. Clearly, she is a poster child for bad motherhood and I dare say the ACLU will have a field day with the ruling. She needs to be a responsible person and that will take much much more than any court order. And I worry very much about her children in the foster care system which is another band aid solution that does not solve the problem, sigh!!

It is such a tough issue and the sad fact is - as my mom, who rues the lack of plagrounds in her Florida neighbourhood characterized as it is with so many seniors, we as a society do not care for our children as well as we should!! It is illegal for the Judge to order her to have surgery though he should have sent her to an addictions center - though I bet there is a long waiting list!!

Anyway, I am not going to solve that issue. I just do not think every single individual, especially innocent children who through no fault of their own learn the "welfare" system better than the most officious social worker, who happens to be on welfare is leading a good life or is there because they want to be.

chico2
January 5th, 2005, 10:47 PM
I am a little shocked I still read some of you believe people on wellfare,drive Benzes and eat shrimp for dinner :confused:
You should really focus on our wasteful government and look into how THEY spend our tax-dollars and it has nothing to do with people on well-fare.
Harris workfare-program did not pan out,because it would have been slave-labour,who in there right mind,if they are able to work,would work for $500/month??
Canada should concentrate on kids,just like in Europe,where day-care is avaliable for everyone(at least Sweden and France),often single moms don't even have to pay,just so they can work and better themselves.
I myself looked after two little girls when we lived in Sweden,before I could do it I had to take a lenghty course to get a child-care diploma.I was payed by the government and the single moms payed nothing.
Our biggest problem with moms on wellfare is expensive day-care...and loong waiting-lists for subsidized day-care.But of course,there is no money to be made on free day-care..that's where we here in North America are failing the kids!

Schwinn
January 6th, 2005, 07:55 AM
Better to work for $500 a month than get the money for free! I lived in one of the towns where they were going to implement workfare, and I remember one of the jobs was working for the city in the maintenance department, cutting city lawn. One of the comments was, "That's humiliating forcing us to do that!" I also remember a couple of the city workers who did the job didn't feel too happy that they were being told they should be humiliated for doing thier job. Yes, heaven forbid they should have to work for thier money! I'll believe there are no jobs the day I open the want ads and see blank pages. And although I don't think people on welfare drive Benzs (I do know a few abuse stories almost as ridiculous), plenty of them have cars. I'm so glad my tax dollars are paying for that, especially after I spent a year roller-blading around town because I couldn't afford my car, and after the people who work who can't afford a car are taking city transit. I don't have a big problem with people who are on mother's allowance. If you have one kid, fine. If, while on welfare, you have another, okay, mistakes happen, but give your head a shake. Three? No way. I grew up surrounded by people who used kids as a source of income. I knew of one girl who was kicked out of her home because she wouldn't get pregnant to bring in more money to the house. I knew another who's mom was still running her own baby factory, so when her 17 told her boyfriend she wanted a kid, the mom got angry because she would get her own cheques cut back. I know hundreds of these stories, and they disgust me. And I have never, ever met a healthy male who needed to be on welfare, but I've met hundreds who are on it.

That being said I completly agree on the point about taking better care of our kids. Instead of throwing money into welfare, put it in a daycare program where it will allow the parents to go to work.

chico2
January 6th, 2005, 08:51 AM
This argument and blaming your high taxes on people on assistance has been going on forever,envying people much worse off than most of us,is not a nice human trait.
Instead we should be greatful,we are not in that position,we can work..spend more money on our beloved pets than some people can spend on food for their family.
I consider myself very fortunate and do not begrudge helping others,I rather have our tax-money go to a needy child than paying for Adrienne Clarksons million $$$ trips and my husband pays more in taxes than some people make in a year.We made it,with a little bit of luck,our health and yes,hard work..
So,lets be happy for the opportunities we had and have and that we live in a country where the less fortunate can get help. End of rant :ca:

lil_kirk
January 6th, 2005, 09:00 AM
The reaction people have to welfare is very much a personal thing. Depending on your background, experiences with welfare recipients, and/or the government---you may have a different outlook on the situation.

I personally take great issue with it--when it comes to the adults. I do not believe that the money given to them is well spent. Children are not provided for in the way they should when their parents spend all of their allotment on the first day of the month, buying junk food and toys for themselves. This causes many children to go without---and this is a problem.

Ultimately there is so much abuse of the system. I think that is what Schwinn is pointing to as well. Yes, there are certainly people who have the need for social assistance through no fault of their own but no, the system is not perfect so thousands of people sit on welfare who do not need it. I do not have a problem who use the system for what it is for. However, if we could get those particular people off of welfare who shouldn't be there, the government would have far more tax dollars to put into shelters, childcare, medicine, etc. This is why I have a problem.

heidiho
January 6th, 2005, 09:55 AM
I think in Wisconsin they have a program now where you can get it for one year and that is it..I mean my issue is like i said i have worked since i was 15 when i went to Kentucky i applied at gas stations,video stores etc i could not find a job i apllied for help and was told no...But someone that doesnt try to help themselves can keep bringing kids into this world and keep collecting more and more money,it is bull****.......I have seen lots of people with really bad problems get there a** to work..And the drug thing been there done that and when you hit bottom you know it,you dont need rehab to tell you that,when you are ready to quit it can be done own your own IF you really want it

Schwinn
January 6th, 2005, 10:47 AM
I think the biggest problem is we live in a country where everyone must be coddled, and do not offend the little guy, regardless of right or wrong. Don't get me wrong, I love my country, so much so that I would defend it to the bitter end. I'm just tired of all the political correct crap and not worry about offending people to the extent that nothing gets solved.

As far as welfare, I think that we should be issuing food stamps, and that the rent cheques should be sent directly to the landlords (I have had many friends who have had issues with non-payment from welfare recipients. Unlike non-welfare individuals, they can not be evicted for non-payment. I've known a few people who almost went bankrupt because of this). I used to be a teller, and I've had them cashing thier cheques while talking on thier cell-phones to thier friends (I couldn't afford a cell phone, let alone air time to chat with buddies during the week in prime time), or talk about the show they watched on the specialty channels that I couldn't afford because it cost $60 a month. I've heard the arguement that that would be too humiliating to divey out thier cash for them. Boo freakin' hoo!! Maybe if we didn't protect a lot of these people from having thier feelings hurt, there would be more incentive to get a job! (Don't even get me started on the one person who laughed at how desparate I was to get a job when I applied at McDonald's, only to find out later he was on welfare. Or the girl who went back to school, complaining that how dare the welfare office suggest that her, with a university degree, take a job they were offereing at 7-11. The humiliation!!)

lil_kirk
January 6th, 2005, 10:54 AM
I'm with you Schwinn. I've seen the same things here in Canada. It's atrocious. There has to be a better way to "get these people back on their feet." I too have worked since I was 16--had four jobs in university so that I could pay my way--and am offended by the amount of money taken off my paycheques!!!

I am very surprised that this judge actually banned this woman from having children. I doubt that would ever happen here in Canada---heaven forbid something is taken from someone. Heck, even prisoners get steak dinners, free internet and tv, and university educations!!!! Why shouldn't those outside of the concrete walls soak it up too!!

Ah...I could go on forever about this topic...from the day I realized how this country worked it has urked me and while I believe there is a better way---I have no faith it will ever come to be.

chico2
January 6th, 2005, 12:22 PM
Like with most things in life there are abusers,be it wellfare,unemployment etc...and that is what we notice,the word"they"covers everyone unfairly.
Just look at the Pit-Bull issue,how quickly they ALL get painted by the same brush.
I agree,any able-bodied,healthy,strong person should take care of themselves and work.Wellfare is for emergencies......growing up on wellfare,I know as a child how humiliating it can be and my mom was not a smoocher,she was just to ill to work.
I have no idea how anyone can pay car-insurance,phone-bills,cable-TV,rent and food with $560/month(single)they must be magicians :crazy:
Ok,no more of this garbage....I just consider myself very fortunate to have everything I need and want in life :thumbs up

Schwinn
January 6th, 2005, 05:36 PM
I have no idea how anyone can pay car-insurance,phone-bills,cable-TV,rent and food with $560/month(single)they must be magicians :crazy:


Like I said, $560/month can go a lot further when you don't pay your rent. I'm not saying that people on welfare don't pay thier rent, just offering one way that helps people to abuse the system. And I don't know a lot of how they are paid. I saw some men cashing cheques that were certainly larger than that, I've met guys with computer systems that could run a small country. But I have a feeling that's a whole other issue as well.

I also think that there are individuals who need the help. I had a girlfriend who's dad was fighting for several years with pension for disability, and when they finally gave him what he deserved, his back pay was enough for him to buy a vehicle and move into a house that actually fit the family. I never asked, but I'm sure he was collecting something in the meantime. And I don't see how a single teenage girl can make it with a child. I'll be the first to admit mistakes can happen (um...'nuff said!), so I do think there is leeway there as well. I don't like to make sweeping generalizations, but I still stand by what I said before...I have yet to meet an able-bodied, healthy person without kids who needed to be on welfare. And unfortunatly, I've met a lot.

LL1
January 6th, 2005, 05:53 PM
Your Mom needed help and I am glad she got it. When people and children actually need help, and the adults are unable to work, I think they should get it. No ifs and or buts. I don't think they should be allowed more children tho and I would support mandatory depo shots for them.

Those who can afford cell phones, cable, etc - are not magicians, I refer to them as self employed. There is always a way to make a quick buck, legally or not. And those who are employed also do so, welfare recipients have not cornered that market! I know people on welfare who are much better off financially than I am working fulltime. They work the system tho.
I agree,any able-bodied,healthy,strong person should take care of themselves and work.Wellfare is for emergencies......growing up on wellfare,I know as a child how humiliating it can be and my mom was not a smoocher,she was just to ill to work.
I have no idea how anyone can pay car-insurance,phone-bills,cable-TV,rent and food with $560/month(single)they must be magicians :crazy:

mastifflover
January 6th, 2005, 06:28 PM
Your right they know how to work the system. There was a couple that lived beside me at the time my rent was close to 1000. a month. I was making really good money back then and they were collecting welfare in fact they were getting 4 cheques a month. One day the postman asked me how many people lived next door and I said 2 he said are you sure, yeah. I did not know at that point they were on welfare. He reported them because they are suppose to if they suspect abuses. Well 6 months later they were still getting there 4 cheques for sitting on their butts and selling drugs to supplement their already 2500. from welfare and when the govt. finally did something they packed up one night and moved never to be seen again. I am sure they just moved to a different area. But I am so happy to know that while we work are butts off to keep these people nice and comfy so they don't actually have to do anything like work and live comfortably. Just like the trash who keep having babies to increase the cheque. Yes there are people that really do need it and deserve it but I believe limits need to be set.
There was nothing wrong with some of the ideas of work program they had set up it teaches you how to get a job and keep it. If they thought it was slave labour then get off your butts and get a job and stop whining. Sorry but I would like to take home more of the paycheque I work for not so some slug can go buy beer and sit on his fat smelly butt. If these people complain they dont get enough money they are allowed to earn a little extra by getting a job and it will not be deducted from their cheques. The only ones who do this are the people I have no problem with they want off welfare and to make a better life. Not like the whiners who are to lazy to work and feel that the world owes them a favour. This does not mean the people with legitimate disabilities or legitmate claims.