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My puppy died

Fishhead
December 17th, 2004, 08:02 PM
I purchased a new puppy from a local breeder. The following day the puppy got sick and within a week the puppy died. The vet concluded that the puppy died from canine distemper. The breeder replaced the puppy with another one from the same litter but feels that they don't need to help with the vet bills. The bills totalled over $400. The breeder feels that they replaced the puppy with a more valuable one and I am not so sure, I am in the opinion that the new pup may be the runt of the litter as it is much smaller then the first one and even smaller then the others I had my choice of. When choosing the pups i wasn't shown this particular one and another female as was told that they were going to be used for showing. The breeder contends that this is the "perfect specimen" of this breed as it is the correct size. BTW the breed is the Beagle. I was wondering what other people think about this and if I should pursue it any further?

Lucky Rescue
December 17th, 2004, 08:19 PM
This is horrible and very sad! Poor little puppy!

You can certainly take the breeder to small claims court and sue for the vet bills you incurred. Make sure you have a vet report that clearly states the puppy was harbouring the disease prior to you bringing it home. Do some reseach on distemper yourself and take along your own findings to prove this as well.

Is the new puppy healthy? Have you had it checked out thoroughly? If you aren't planning on showing or breeding, does it really matter if the puppy is small as long as there is nothing wrong with it?

Karin
December 17th, 2004, 08:20 PM
I think you need a lawyer.

BMDLuver
December 17th, 2004, 08:28 PM
Let me start by saying I am very sorry for your loss.

Usually a reputable breeder has a 14 day condition that includes the first vet visit being paid by the breeder at the vet of the breeders choice. This ensures that the puppy is deemed to be healthy when received. Also, the puppy should have received it's first D2App vaccine prior to you receiving it, did it? It seems very strange that this occurred from a reputable breeder as they have the puppies thoroughly examined before releasing to the families.

Thus said, I would dig a little further on this one.

Bugsy
December 17th, 2004, 08:28 PM
I'm so sorry for your loss. Poor little thing :sad:

Are your first pup's litter mates healthy? How about the new pup? If they are, you may want to investigate further as to where the first pup was exposed to the virus. Ultimately the decision to take this further is yours to make. I would advise you to watch that new pup like a hawk... just to be on the safe side.

Kiss on the head to your new little furball :D

Keep us posted.

meb999
December 17th, 2004, 10:22 PM
:sorry:
So sorry for your loss. My first dog ever (Samson -- a lahsa apso) died of distemper, after we'd had him for only 1 month. I was crushed (i was 8). And that's how we learned about puppy mills.
Are you from Québec? According to the consummer protection law, an animal is a consummer product (it's horrible to think that way...but the law, is the law!!), you therefor have the protection of the law. The dog was sick before you got him, therefor the 'breeder' (he doesn't deserve that title) must not only replace the dog, but also cover all expenses.
You should look at your contract, does it specify anything about vet bills? iF it does, did the breeder explain these clauses specifically? Even if their are clauses about vet bills, they have to have been clearly explained to you for them to hold up. Often a breeder will will include in a contract that you must go see a certain vet for any problems within the first weeks, and won't pay if you went to see another.
I do think that you should pursue this. This guy (or girl) shouldn't be breeding if he (or she!!) can't take responsibility for their dog. Your story makes me very sad :sad: and reminds me of Samson, may he rest in peace.
Good luck, and I'm so sorry for your loss

foster-in-ON
December 18th, 2004, 05:25 PM
Fishhead,

Could you please contact me regarding this puppy. I would like to collect some information, and hopefully give you some insight into your puppy.

wabuno_creek_stables@yahoo.com

CyberKitten
December 18th, 2004, 07:08 PM
I am so sorry for your loss!! I think most of us know what it is like to lose a pet and it is not a good expreince.

That said, I too think you shoud engage a lawyer or take the breeder to small claims court. Is the breeder a "good" one - as in you selected the breeder becuase you were able to visit them and see the parents and the pedigree and so forth and have the health record of the puppy. (There is more but there are pages and pages online if you need that). I am just wondering how credible this breeder is.

A "good" breeder would be devistated by distemper and worry about the other dogs s/he has. They would work with you in a more open way and certainly refund you the money.

This sounds like a case that needs to be investigated more!

Fishhead
December 19th, 2004, 12:57 AM
Thanks for all your sympathy folks, it is greatly appreciated.

To answer a few of your questions, the new puppy is very healthy and extremely energetic. He is a complete joy and the kids and I are enjoying his enthusiasm emensely. I've had him checked by the vet and all is well.

The vet and the breeder both agreed that the source of the distemper was likely from the vacination itself. They said that this can occur but is rare. The dates of the vacination and the date of the dog getting sick and dying are right on for the incubation time of distemper.

The breeder was extremely worried about her other animals and told me that she kept the rest for an extra 3 weeks. During that time the breeder told me they tossed the vaccinations they had and bought from another supplier and they all got there 2nd set of shots.

This is the breeders response to me on the vet bills.

"We replaced this companion puppy, that you paid $500.00 for with a nicer quality puppy, which my sellling price would be at least over $800.00. A well this replacement puppy had a second set of shots when I gave it to you, saving you the normal $60.00 trip to the vet you would have had to do if it were any other puppy. Again, I was trying to make sure you had a more valuable puppy than the first one.My puppies normally start at $800.00, but you had told me it was just you and your children, and I offered you the first puppy at an already reduced price of $500.00. We did not have to do that. My understanding is that we will never know exactly how and why puppy got sick. We can only surmise. It truly was a sad situation, and we feel we have done the right and proper thing, by replacing an unguaranteed, companion puppy promptly, with a more valuable one,at cost to ourselves. You should know that in doing this for you right away, rather than having you wait till next litter, I had to put off other clients for you, another thing that was done at my inconvenience so your familly could have another puppy by the holidays. I really feel I have treated you well, and have put myself out for you, I've done all I can do."

BMDLuver
December 19th, 2004, 06:53 AM
Kind of a catch 22 isn't it, as the puppy was vaccinated by the breeder? At least the breeder did replace the puppy with another puppy and did vaccinate it a second time. It may just be one of those random times when a reaction occurs and the disease incubated. I am happy your family has a new one to love. Best of the holiday season to you!

TobsterMom
December 19th, 2004, 10:30 AM
[/QUOTE]"We replaced this companion puppy, that you paid $500.00 for with a nicer quality puppy, which my sellling price would be at least over $800.00. A well this replacement puppy had a second set of shots when I gave it to you, saving you the normal $60.00 trip to the vet you would have had to do if it were any other puppy. Again, I was trying to make sure you had a more valuable puppy than the first one.My puppies normally start at $800.00, but you had told me it was just you and your children, and I offered you the first puppy at an already reduced price of $500.00. We did not have to do that. My understanding is that we will never know exactly how and why puppy got sick. We can only surmise. It truly was a sad situation, and we feel we have done the right and proper thing, by replacing an unguaranteed, companion puppy promptly, with a more valuable one,at cost to ourselves. You should know that in doing this for you right away, rather than having you wait till next litter, I had to put off other clients for you, another thing that was done at my inconvenience so your familly could have another puppy by the holidays. I really feel I have treated you well, and have put myself out for you, I've done all I can do."[/QUOTE]


Wow...so when is she going to be inducted into sainthood? This reply almost made me puke.

twinmommy
December 19th, 2004, 01:16 PM
Funny how she only told you she was giving you a deal--AFTER THE FACT!!
(or did she?) Any ways, the point remains, yes sometimes things happen, but it sounds like if you would have paid 800$ she would have come across with proper reimbursement. But since you only paid 500, by her calculations she ends up short so she changes her refund policy. SIGGGGGGHHHHH!!!

COULD IT BE??? A BREEDER LACKING IN INTEGRITY AND HONESTY??? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Glad you are loving your new little one, sorry that you had that bad experience.
Happy Holidays :love:

Karin
December 19th, 2004, 05:29 PM
"We replaced this companion puppy, that you paid $500.00 for with a nicer quality puppy, which my sellling price would be at least over $800.00. A well this replacement puppy had a second set of shots when I gave it to you, saving you the normal $60.00 trip to the vet you would have had to do if it were any other puppy. Again, I was trying to make sure you had a more valuable puppy than the first one.My puppies normally start at $800.00, but you had told me it was just you and your children, and I offered you the first puppy at an already reduced price of $500.00. We did not have to do that. My understanding is that we will never know exactly how and why puppy got sick. We can only surmise. It truly was a sad situation, and we feel we have done the right and proper thing, by replacing an unguaranteed, companion puppy promptly, with a more valuable one,at cost to ourselves. You should know that in doing this for you right away, rather than having you wait till next litter, I had to put off other clients for you, another thing that was done at my inconvenience so your familly could have another puppy by the holidays. I really feel I have treated you well, and have put myself out for you, I've done all I can do."[/QUOTE]


Wow...so when is she going to be inducted into sainthood? This reply almost made me puke.[/QUOTE]

Me too...that's why i did not post when I first read this before going into work today.

It stresses me to see ill informed people being taken for a ride. Especially when you cannot see them face to face..making contact and hopefully a difference.

Sometimes I feel like it's a washout...we'll never win against Bad breeders.

lil_kirk
December 19th, 2004, 05:35 PM
Interesting how the new puppy is "unguaranteed."

CarlaD
December 20th, 2004, 12:03 PM
I am so sorry to hear about your puppy.

I am kinda confused, how the new puppy could be more valuable than the first? I have two beagles from the same breeder, and all his beagles were the same price and all the same quality. That is one part that I don't understand.

The other part is that all reputable breeders should replace the puppy if something happens within two weeks... some have a stipulation that you take it to the vets within 48 hours of bringing it home, so that any problems can be caught.

I hope that you get this straightened out.

In the mean time, enjoy your new pup and post some pics!

whinnie-boo
December 20th, 2004, 12:09 PM
I'm very sorry to hear about your first Puppy, very sad.
I would consult a lawyer before doing anything further.
I wish I had some more advice then that, but I don't. Just enjoy your new baby & if he hasn't already been, take him to the vet A.S.A.P.

((((((((hugs)))))))))) to you & your new baby :grouphug:

glasslass
December 20th, 2004, 12:30 PM
I notice there's no mention of the heartbreak and stress you and your family was put through! My sympathies to you all! Hope your new puppy is able to help fill that hole in your hearts!

lilpaws
December 20th, 2004, 01:45 PM
Sorry about the first puppy. It sounds like the breeder did try however some of the points were a little "iffy". I agree with an earlier post - how can one puppy be more valuable from another in the same litter? It does sound like the breeder did try. It has been mentioned to get a lawyer. I'm not for that. If you are still unhappy with your situation I would suggest documenting everything and going to small claims. Much less expensive than the $500 retainer.

Mistruzzi
December 20th, 2004, 04:52 PM
Ahhhh,that is so awful!That must have been a bad experience.Poor little puppy!! :sorry:

Princesss04
December 22nd, 2004, 11:48 AM
I am so sorry to hear what happened to your baby. You are in our thoughts and prayers. :sorry:

mona_b
December 22nd, 2004, 05:45 PM
I'm so very sorry for your loss.

But I don't think this was a very responsible breeder,or a licenced one.

The reason being is the way he was talking about the prices.And the comment about it being just you and the children so the price was reduced.What the heck is up with that?

Question about this breeder.Where you put on a waiting list?Are the sire and dam of champoin or titled lines?Have they been genetic and health tested?Does this breeder know the pedigrees of the sire/dam?

My GSD's came from the same breeder.The price was the same.

The only time a price would be "slightly" higher is if the pup is show quality.

CyberKitten
December 22nd, 2004, 09:57 PM
I agree with Tobster's mom. I thought I would be actually physically ill reading that!! At least she did give you another puppy BUT usually, breeders will allow you to pick out the puppy YOU want! And it should be verified that this puppy is higher quality. (I feel badly for the so called "lower" quality puppies. it almost sounds racist but yep, I do know that is the system. It is like that with cats too and I ended up with a show cat even tho I wanted "just" a companion pet cat.)

But my, you would think she'd solved world peace!! (Or was Mother Teresa and St. Franis of Assis all in one!)

I'd ask to see the records - as someone else said - where were you on the list and so on? I know "reputable" cat breeders must specify which kittens are reserved and it is typically listed on the web site. And by which kittens, I mean when a Queen is pregnant, various types she may have are already spoken for. (and a deposit has been paid).

I think someone also pointed out about the animal's background. My poodle for example (when I was a teenager), had a pedigree a mile long (to use an age old expression, lol). Anyone can regsiter a dog. But you need to know the parents, the grandparents and the entire family tree! Which dogs had won titles and so forth. My poodle's mom was a champion but I never did get into the showing dogs thing. (Reminded me too much of those Little Miss pagents, ughhh!!)

The same is true for Yin Yin. I know who her great grandmother is and what prizes she won!!

This one sounds like a back yard breeder - she is not in it to show the dogs and promote the breed but it's all about money!!

But since the distemper happened around the time of the vaccination, it's hard to tell and I do not know enough about that to comment!

LL1
December 23rd, 2004, 05:17 PM
I'm so sorry about your pup, you must be devastated. We had a foster get kennel cough from the vaccine - he was immunosuppressed and it has happened I know with other diseases occuring soon after being vaccinated.

I'd wonder what the contract said specifically about health and replacement and things like that.

So sorry for your loss.

LL1
December 23rd, 2004, 05:21 PM
Off topic, apologies, but what do you mean by licensed? I have seen you post that term before. No breeders are issued licences by the CKC.


But I don't think this was a very responsible breeder,or a licenced one.

mona_b
December 26th, 2004, 09:22 AM
Off topic, apologies, but what do you mean by licensed? I have seen you post that term before. No breeders are issued licences by the CKC.

Yes they are.All licenced breeders kennels are registered and licenced with the CKC.These are the breeders who show and carry champion and titled lines.And having been doing so for many many years.The only breeders not licenced with the CKC are the BYB's.Why?Cause they do not have champion or titled dogs.They do not screen them for health or genetic problems.And they breed way before it should be done.Mostly in the first heat.Which NO licenced responsible breeder does.Did you know a female can come into heat as early as 6 months?Pretty sick knowing that some BYB's are starting to breed them at this age.And there was a shelter that had someone drop of a beagle who had just had pups.She was 7 months old.

Hope this helped you out some.

LL1
December 26th, 2004, 10:10 AM
Actually no Mona, there is no such thing. That's why I wondered what you were referring to.

From the CKC's website:

"DON'T BE MISLED

The use of the phrase"CKC Registered"means the dog is registered as a purebred dog.It is not an endorsement of the health/quality of the animal nor an endorsement of the operating practices of the breeder.It does not mean that the breeder is "registered"or "licensed".No breeders are issued licences by the CKC or any other organization. A breeder may choose to join The Canadian Kennel Club for the benefits of membership but their kennel is operated as an independent business.

A message from the CKC...be responsible and consider the source."





Yes they are.All licenced breeders kennels are registered and licenced with the CKC.The only breeders not licenced with the CKC are the BYB's..Which NO licenced responsible breeder does.
Hope this helped you out some.