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Chewing crate pan liner

GsdDiamond
December 8th, 2004, 03:32 PM
Hi gang,
Yet another question that I'm sure you folks can help me with.

Terri is starting to get Diamond used to being in her crate more, again, because she goes back on the day shift on Monday. She's been on evening for a few months now, and Diamond's had free reign for that long. The problem is, when Diamond's put in there for any length of time, other than bedtime, she chews the pan at the bottom of her crate. We put a fuzzy blanket in there, hoping she'd shred that, or chew on her bones, or play with her toys (her crate is HUGE) but that's not the case.

She's starting to chew her pan really bad in one corner. We tried vinegar, lemon juice, and now hot sauce (as of today). We tried putting bitter apple on something once, but she liked it and licked it clean. So, needless to say...bitter apple is a no go.

Any ideas on how to stop her from chewing the pan liner? We still don't trust her to be by herself yet, even though people say we should try leaving her alone by herself for an hour or so. We have plants she shouldn't eat (not to mention the Christams tree) so that's out of the question!

I could really use some ideas. I'd rather leave the pan liner in the kennel, with her blanket, so she's a bit more comfortable.

Thanks kids. I appreciate it.

lilith_rizel
December 8th, 2004, 04:33 PM
Well, I don't know what to say about the pan liner. Never had that issue.

Diamond is under a year yet, right? Well from what I have experienced, a dog is never FULLY house broken, until they are a year old atleast. Cano is just over 10 months, and we still don't plan on leaving him out of his crate while we are gone, any time soon. It will be a good 6 months before we even think about it. We want to make sure he won't mess in the house while we are gone. So I don't think it is a problem with leaving Diamond in her crate, especially if you have plants and a tree!

tenderfoot
December 8th, 2004, 04:34 PM
I am assuming its a wire crate? - that's one reason I like the solid sided ones. I guess you could just take the liner out and put the crate on a plastic sheet so any mistakes are caught. The blanket is fine but if she shreds it she could swallow lots of bits of it and cause an obstruction.
I would work at training her to have better behavior in the crate. Besure she is getting tons of exercise before you put her in so she is more likely to sleep. Lots of safe toys are great, but as far as she is concerned the liner is just another funky chew toy. Put her in the crate while you are home and keep an eye on her - if she goes to even put a lip on the liner give her a strong (not loud) verbal correction. Pretend its poison in your mind so that your energy is very intense when you correct her. She needs to get the idea that she cannot put her mouth on it under any circumstances. When she takes her mouth off if it then give her soft and warm praise, and encourage her to select one of the other toys.
Try not to reward her with treats in this circumstance as she might be smart enough to learn that putting her mouth on it is worth the correction so long as she gets the treat in the end. - did you get dizzy from that explanation? I think I did.

GsdDiamond
December 9th, 2004, 10:41 AM
Thanks for the suggestions....
Yeah, it's a wire kennel. We got a really good price on the new kennel, so we couldn't pass it up. Besides, with her long hair we keep a fan on her, when she's in there, to keep her cool. We found it too hard to do with the solid kennel.

She's only 10 months old, so she won't be allowed to roam the house by herself until she can be trusted to not chew on things she shouldn't, like the plants and furniture. Although I'd like to start her sleeping beside the bed sometime soon. Her bladder has proven very reliable, as she hasn't had an accident in almost 2 months. But, if we have to keep her kenneled at night, so be it.

Well, Terri put the hot sauce on the kennel pan, and I think she had a go at it just before I came home yesterday. When I let her out she wanted to go outside, which is normal routine when I get home. She started eating snow, and lots of it. All evening she was licking things and keeping her toungue sticking out when possible! It was the funniest thing. I don't think she likes the taste of it very much. Maybe that's going to work. Here's hoping! Maybe we won't have to reapply the sauce, which would be nice.....the room smells like a giant hot pepper! :yuck:

lilith_rizel
December 9th, 2004, 12:45 PM
So Diamond is the same age as our Cano. We have permitted Cano to sleep in our room a few times, since we have had him. And he hasn't messed yet. His first night sleeping with us, was when he was 4 1/2 months old. We only reward him with that if he is super good, and doesn't chew anything up. Which is about every 2 months. We are still working on the newspaper issue. He grabs James newspaper from the coffee table, when we aren't looking, and shreds it up! LOL. It's a good thing that James reads it right away.

tenderfoot
December 9th, 2004, 04:26 PM
To ensure that she makes it through the night - let her have her last drink at about 7pm and then take the water away. Let her have a good potty break before bed and she should be good for the night.
If you don't want her in the crate at night then tie her on a short (2ft) leash to your bedside. It is long enough for her to stand up, turn around and lie down again, but not to get up, make a mess and then come back to a nice warm, dry bed. It is also not too long so that she might try to jump into bed and then get herself caught up in it. As she proves that she can sleep through the night and gets the idea that she is to stay in her bed then you can start to test her without the leash and see how she does - she just might surprise you.
I keep meaning to tell you how gorgeous your GSD is. I am very impressed.

GsdDiamond
December 10th, 2004, 12:38 PM
I keep meaning to tell you how gorgeous your GSD is. I am very impressed.

First off, thank you for that!

Ok....she's able to make it through the night without needing to go pee/poop, and has been ok since about 3 months old. So it's not a case of worrying of her needing to go outside. And this is without restricting her water intake. I think I'd be more concerned about her trying to wander about and going places I don't want her to. But if she's on a leash there's no chance of that happening.
She doesn't try to get up on the bed, because it's a tall mattress, but that's fine with us. She hasn't tried jumping since her spay. I think, deep down, she's still nervous and thinks that she still can't. But again, that's fine with us. We only have a chain link fence, from the previous owners who had small dogs, so the fence isn't very tall. Normal dogs could jump it without breaking stride. I'm glad she hasn't tried.

mona_b
December 10th, 2004, 01:25 PM
Question.
How is she when she isn't in her crate?What I mean is,does she get into things she shouldn't?..Also,have you tried going out for a bit,leaving her alone with the free run?

With Yukon(R.I.P.)and Tron,they had free run of the house by 5 months.I know it may sound easier having 2.They can keep each other company.But I only had Tron till he was 18 months.Then Yukon was on his own.

GsdDiamond
December 10th, 2004, 02:39 PM
We haven't tried leaving her alone in the house by herself yet. I guess I'm kinda nervous about that. After Christmas we'll give it a go, once the tree is down and we put the Deifenbachia away so she can't chew it.

How long could we try for? She's quite whiney when we're out for a car ride and one of us gets out. She cries like we're beating her. She's better when we return. I'm not sure if that's seperation anxiety or not, or if she just wants to go with.

mona_b
December 10th, 2004, 03:20 PM
With me, I started off with 15 mins in the begining.When I came back in the house I didn't make such a big deal.They sat and watched me.Then I praised them like crazy and gave them their treat.I did this for a few days.Then I left a bit longer.I think about 30 mins.And if I recall,I started doing this when they were about 4-4 1/2 months old.I'm trying to think back 8 years ago.LOL...With me I never crated.It just wasn't a big hype back then.I blocked off the kitchen.They were never really chewers,so I didn't worry about things getting chewed.And I had their toys for them to play with.

Hmmmm,sounds like she may have some seperation anxiety.Or just a suckie puppy.LOL.

When she is crated,does she whine alot?..If she can't find you or Terri,does she whine?

tenderfoot
December 10th, 2004, 03:59 PM
Think of her as an 10 year old child who whines when you leave her at school. She has learned it works and gets you to come back. This child does not feel secure in the world without her parents - but it is time for her to start feeling good about the rest of the world and herself.
So we need to start leaving her in little spurts (seconds to minutes) and then work towards longer and longer times. Do not even look at her when she whines/cries or when you leave or come back. You need her to get used to your coming and going and both of you need to think it's no big deal. If she senses that you are anxious at all about leaving her then she will believe it too and it will feed her insecurities.
Pretend you have a project outside but all of your tools are inside. Leave her inside and go out and come right back to get a "tool". Do not look at her when you leave or come back and do not say anything to her. At first she will be all excited each time you enter, but after some repetition she will barely get up to see you. Eventually she won't even lift her head. Now you are on your way to being able to leave her - but only for short periods to start. You might have to go through this scenario a few times before you really see some changes.
I would put her in the car in your driveway and do chores around the car (perhaps wash the car), Ignore her bad behavior, but if she is being good then praise her. *If she is being terrible and screaming then I would correct it (short & sharp verbal correction), tell her to lay down and stay, and then go back to what I was doing. As she is being good - I would start to get further from the car for longer periods of time. Don't wait until you stress her and she cries - try to come back just before you sense she might be at her limit and then praise her. Be non-chalant about it. Don't gush about any of it. Do this as much as possible until she just lays down in the car knowing that you will be back and relaxes. Then move the car to different locations and start over. Dont' head straight for the mall where you will be stressed at leaving her and her cries will stress everyone else. The mall would be college level for her and you are not ready for that.
This might sound harsh, but right now I think she thinks she is the center of the familys life and her inner cord (her emotional security to life) is fully attached to you. She doesn't know that she can exist without you - she has not learned to entertain herself and be alone. The greatest gift you can give her is confidence in herself and the world.
We have a drill that we do which helps with this. It is called the "out' drill. It means that you must create imaginary boundaries in your home and she must learn to stay on the OTHER side of the boundary - away from you. If you are in the kitchen then she is OUT of it. If you go upstairs she must wait downstairs. If you are greeting people at the door, she is on the other side of the imaginary boundary away from you and the person. If you are eating dinner she is OUT of the dining room. You are going to use a leash, your energy and voice to accomplish this. Be clear and firm - she cannot put one toe across the imaginary line. It can last for a few seconds or an hour. It is not a stay - she can go any where she wants in the house - just not cross that line. Make an out box that she must stay inside of - so when you are watching TV she must go to her spot and stay there. She can have a toy to play with, but she is not to be clinging to you.
The point is that if a dog is out of balance then you need to do the opposite thing that the dog has issues with. If she is clingy and can't be alone then you work at teaching her how to be alone and do not allow her to cling anymore. If she were aloof and distant then I would require that she be with me a lot.
I hope this makes sense, because I am concerned about Terri going to dayshift on Monday and Diamond is not ready for it. Good luck.

GsdDiamond
December 10th, 2004, 04:00 PM
Diamond only seems to whine when she SEES us leave her. When we put her in her kennel, not a peep. If she's standing at the door when one goes out....big time suck! Same goes for if we've gone for a walk and one goes in a store where she can't go. Holy cow....you'd think we just told her the best treats in the world were in there and then said she couldn't have any!!!! CRY CRY!

I think it has to do with her being such a baby. When she's over tired big time suck. Has to be petted. Has to be touching you in some way.

We'll have to try leaving her for a few minutes and see how that goes. We'll give her a treat and leave without any fuss and see what happens. Hopefully she'll just take it in stride, but I'm not betting on it. She'll whine whether its me or Terri who leaves her behind.

tenderfoot
December 10th, 2004, 04:17 PM
She knows it works. Do not buy into it. Give her a job to do when you go in the store. Sit/Stay. If she complains then get intense (not loud) and correct her, place her in the sit/stay and go in again. Dogs will challenge as many times as they have learned it works. Normally it should be only 3-5 times and then they will submit and not argue anymore. But Diamond may have learned to challange 10 times before she gives up. Typlically it is a sign that she is not respecting your word. So that means you have to mean it when you say it - don't let any sympathy creep into your voice or body language. You must win this one - or you will be fighting this battle for the next 15 years and it could get much worse.
This is going to sound terrible :sorry: - but as long as you think of her as a baby she is going to act like one. She has entered sexually maturity and we have to start teaching our little girl to start acting like a little lady. I have not figured out how to say any of that more gently yet, but trust me we have to say it to people all of the time . It seems to be human nature to treat our dogs like babies, but it does not serve the dog. I hope I haven't stomped on your heart.

mona_b
December 10th, 2004, 05:23 PM
I have to agree with tenderfoot.

It also seems that she is training you and Terri instead of the other way around.Your going to have to turn the wheels around.Yes,this means being a bit more tough on her.If not,you are going to have your hands full with her.Both you and Terri must train Diamond the same way.Ok,that just confused me...Sorry,been up for 26 hours and brain is not working...LOL

What I mean to say is if you are doing the initial training,Terri must keep up with it.If you have Diamond sit and say she breaks from the sit command and goes over to Terri,then she must give Diamond the sit command.Still not sure that made sense.LOL.When giving her the commands,always use her name before the command.Eg:Diamond "sit"

As tenderfoot said,don't give into he whining.You must break her of that.

Has she always been a whiner or has Diamond just started this?

tenderfoot
December 10th, 2004, 05:42 PM
Good advice, can I tweek it just a bit?
If you ask Diamond to sit and she breaks it and heads for Terri, then Terri should ignore her and YOU have to get her attention and get her to sit. You are in charge in the moment and Diamond shouldn't just blow you off and go to Terri. It's kind of like a child playing two parents off of each other.

mona_b
December 10th, 2004, 06:01 PM
tweek away....... :D

GsdDiamond
December 13th, 2004, 09:30 PM
That's good advice. She does try to push things, but she's getting better. We've got good practice in the down stay category, and she's starting to do it without trying to get up every 2 seconds. A quick, deep "AHHH!" stops her in her tracks. She can stay on her pillow for almost an hour but tries to fake us out. Her ears perk up and she looks towards the back door, pretending she heard something. It's her excuse to try and jump up, and go running to the back door barking. Of course, that doesn't work and as soon as her ears perk up, she tenses, and gets a quick "AHHH!". She stays put, but stays tense.

She's much better than what she was a month ago, or so. I keep reminding myself that technically she's still a puppy, even though she's huge! 10 months old and in the TERRIBLE teens!

Well, this weekend she discovered that she can indeed jump up on the bed. We won't allow her up now unless we invite her, not until she's older and knows the rules of the bed. We moved her pillow into the bedroom so she can lay down while we watch TV if we're taping something in the living room.

I've noticed that she only tries to chew Terri if she wants to play. But, even over the past week, she's gotten better. Time will tell what happens when she's older.

lilith_rizel
December 14th, 2004, 12:42 AM
Gsd,

Cano cries too, but only when I leave the house. He could care less when James leave. I think it is because Cano sees me all day, everyday, so we have a really big bond. But Cano onle sees James at night, and only for 3 hours or so, and on weekends, of course, but half the time on the weekends, James is out running errands, so once again, he sees more of me then as well. Maybe it is just a puppy thing. But then again, Cano is a big baby too. He doesn't ever leave my side, and if I go upstairs and tell him to stay downstairs, he cries.