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Chihuahua or Bulldog

destine21
December 3rd, 2004, 11:55 PM
I know that I've posted before.But I am adding a new type of dog in my search for a new member of our family.I was looking mainly for a chihuahua whn I first came on here.But my husband and I have decided to look for an American Bulldog or a Chihuahua.The gender does not matter.Neither does the age but we would prefer a younger dog(under 5years).We live in Montreal and are willing to adopt from a rescue.We would love to adopt a dog as soon as possible.Not because Christmas is coming but because we feel as if something or someone is missing from our family.We have a young daughter that is gentle with animals.Please if you know of any Bulldogs of chihuahua that need a new home(willing to look in Ontario also),please email us at whiteknights@tv.videotron.ca or destine0429@hotmail.com

SarahJane
December 4th, 2004, 12:11 AM
Chis and bullies are two vastly different breeds and both (especialy bullies) have lots of healh issues. Have you thoroughly researched these breeds? If you would like a dog so much, why not take in a beautiful, loving mixed breed that is just waiting for a family right now?

Sheriffmom
December 4th, 2004, 02:31 PM
I posted on your other link.... but www.deafdogs.org has numerous Bulldogs looking for forever homes, they also have a few Chi's. The only "hitch" they are either fully deaf, or partially deaf. If you do a little research, you'll find that over all this doesn't affect the dog, other then they tend to be a bit more "clingy" (stay close to Mom and Dad).... which in my books is a BONUS!! :)

Lucky Rescue
December 4th, 2004, 04:57 PM
Don't take this wrong - I'm just curious.

American Bulldogs and Chis are just about as far apart as you can get with breeds. Huge, powerful, hog-hunting AmBulls and tiny lap dogs like Chis.

How did you happen to choose two such different breeds? Seems to me if someone is a bulldog fancier, their second choice wouldn't be a Chi. :p

You've said a couple times you want a small dog. You are aware that Ambulls can be 100+ lbs.?

Have you thoroughly researched American Bulldogs, cause they are definitely not for the inexperienced.

heeler's rock!
December 4th, 2004, 06:24 PM
I still have issues with trying to help you find a dog, any dog! You said before that you have to "get rid of" your cat, so I don't understand how you can "get rid of" a cat, but be happy about getting a dog!! If I had to ever give up one of my kitties, I wouldn't be so happy about getting another pet to replace it right away. You haven't even adopted out your cat, and you're already looking for a dog. That's not right.

mastifflover
December 6th, 2004, 09:54 AM
Lucky and the others are so right first of all an American Bulldog is strong willed and if this is your first dog or first large dog this is not the breed for you. These dogs are amazing in a very experienced dog home. They can be very loving and cuddly but they can also walk all over you if you are not a strong owner. I don't get how you could choose to breed so opposite. A chi is so little and requires minimal exercise and a Am. Bully need lots of exercise and walk they are a very active dog so dont let the name bulldog fool you they are much more active than most bull breeds. I hope you have done your homework because if you have not this dog will end up back in a shelter or rescue.

mona_b
December 6th, 2004, 06:52 PM
Lets see,your getting rid of your kitten cause hubby is alergic but not to his cat.And now you want to get a dog?So what happens if hubby become allergic to a dog?Then what?

fruithead
December 6th, 2004, 09:27 PM
sorry to get off topic, but i have a question for sara jane who wrote:
"If you would like a dog so much, why not take in a beautiful, loving mixed breed that is just waiting for a family right now?"
I notice a pug as your picture, did you get him from a breeder or from a shelter? I mean, you seem to be encouraging destine21 to get adopt a mix rather than purchase a purebred so I would be right to assume you only adopt?

Hound_Dog
December 6th, 2004, 10:14 PM
I dunno Fruithead, it clearly seems that destine isn't really sure what she wants. I'd give the same advice to someone who isn't really sure what they want.

Why so hung up on the mixed breed/pure bred thing? You want a schnoodle so badly, get one. I don't like the thought of mixed breeds either. Not because they are in anyway less of a dog ( a dog is a dog is a dog), but there are just too many dogs out there without a home....pure or mixed.

I think that these most of these people are simply concerned that another dog will wind up in an unhappy situation and nobody wants to see that. Why not give a dog from a shelter a second chance? You're no better....you said in a previous post that you were going to find a schnoodle? Although they aren't a "purebred", they are a breed of dog, are they not?

heeler's rock!
December 6th, 2004, 10:31 PM
Also to add to that Hound dog, schnoodles are designer breeds that cost hundreds of dollars. They are just like buying from a breeder when you could spend a fraction of that on a shelter dog that desperately needs a home.

fruithead
December 6th, 2004, 10:47 PM
i'm just sick of being made to feel guilty for getting a schnoodle puppy. there's thousands of people who buy purebreds not to show but to keep as pets. why is my breed any different? believe me, i'm not opposed to shelters but i have seen many people bring home dogs from shelters that have undiagnosed behavioural problems that stick with them forever and its not easy finding a puppy of the breed you like at a time that's right. nonetheless, our puppy is on its way. we're paying a few hundred for him, just as many of you have for your pets, purebred or not.
i guess my beef is that so many of you make it sound like the homeless dog situation is a result of mixed breeds being bred. there are purebreds in shelters to. in my area, our humane society, which i tried to find a dog from for ages, is full of german shepards and pit bulls (just a curiosity, aren't pit bulls technically a mix?).
i know you all think i'm so terrible. really, i'm just frustrated. what's so wrong with wanting a specific breed and wanting a puppy? are all of your dogs shelter rescues?

fruithead
December 6th, 2004, 10:49 PM
oh, and hound dog, i need some clarification...i'm not better than what exactly?

Shae
December 6th, 2004, 11:29 PM
With the vast population of animals so desperate in need of a loving family, a place to call home, I'm against ALL breeding in general.
Animals are being killed every single solitary day. Instead of paying hundreds upon hundreds of dollars on a p/b......why not pay a fraction of it,take an animal in need off death row..... save a life. I dont care what anyone says, rescues make the best pets. I swear they know you saved them. And just think of all that extra money you'll save that you can put toward other things.....including spoiling your new family member to pieces.
View this before heading to a breeder PLEASE.
Don't Buy, Don't Breed, Rescue an Animal"
The Distressing Fate Of A Shelter Dog

http://www.spotsociety.org/fatedog.html

My babies are ALL rescues. Most from the animal hospital that I worked in for many years...........When you rescue an animal, you save a life. When you save a life, you're rewarded, trust me. And there is no feeling like it in the world.

Hound_Dog
December 7th, 2004, 12:08 AM
You're not better than any of these purebred snobs that you keep mentioning. You want to make a clear arguement as to why mixed breeds are just as great as purebreds? fine. I agree. Many of today's purebreds are dogs that were wixed from different stock to create a dog for a special need...i.e. herding or hunting.

The problem is that you seem to think that everyone is making you feel guilty about buying a mixed breed. You're missing the point. Read between the lines and realize that everyone doesn't agree with you because you're buying a dog from someone who might not care about the welfare of the dog. Does this breeder that you're buying a dog from ever test for possible genentic defects in the parents? Many people support getting purebreds because, on the whole, breeders are interested in preventing making puppies with physiological or psychological defects.

Take the chip off your shoulder. You seem like an intelligent person. Realize that everyone here is more concerned with the growing population of dogs in shelters...not about your love of shnoodles.

DogueLover
December 7th, 2004, 05:15 AM
Although I agree that there are a LOT of dogs in shelters who need forever homes, and that there is a reward in getting one and saving it`s life, I can agree with both sides here.

Not all rescue dogs make good pets, and some of them do have "issues" that sometimes( in the defense of the rescues) are undisclosed to the rescue and therefore unknown at the time they place the dog with a family. I think the most important thing is to deal with rescues that, like any good breeder of purebreds, screens the dogs as well as the potential new owners.
My dogue is a purebred and I bought her from a breeder for a considerable amount of money( I could have probably rescued several shelter dogs with what I paid for her) but I do not feel guilty for buying a purebred puppy from a breeder instead of a mixed breed or other purebred from a shelter.
I researched the breed and searched for a LONG time (started when I was 12.......... I turn 36 in January) and went through a very tough screening to be sure the breeder knew what type of home her puppy was going to.

I rescued mixed breeds from shelters before and worked with Rescue dogs in the past, some do make great family pets that can rival any purebred, but there are others that somehow manage to slip through the cracks in the screening system of the rescues.

A lot of people won`t give the rescue the "real reason" for giving up their pet, as they do not want to be judged harshly by a rescue. I know that the rescues that you all talk about on here are very reputable and the people who work for them are truly angels :angel: . I have seen threads on this site, however, about rescue groups that are NOT recommended. So we all know they do exist.

In defense for purchasing a purebred for a considerable amount of money and not rescuing a shelter dog, I do make regular donations to shelters and have helped many friends find lifelong companions from rescues. I just knew what I wanted and I was not going to "settle" for a different breed. Call that irresponsible and contributing to the problem but at least I am honest about it.

We all know that if someone wants a certain breed and is willing to pay for that particular breed then there is no reason to waste our breath to try to change their minds.
I think that you have to be EXTREMELY CAREFUL when choosing a dog for your family regardless of where you get it from.

I do agree also that there is no comparison with chis and bulldogs and that they are so different on so many levels, I question also why those two particular breeds.

Anyway, thats just my two cents. Hope I haven`t offended anyone, just my opinion.

mona_b
December 7th, 2004, 08:24 AM
fruithead,as it's been said,a schnoodle is a designer breed.They come from BYB's who breed for money.They will charge up to $600.There is no health and genetic testing done on these dogs.Not even if both parents are pure of each breed.A friend of mine paid $500 for her Bichon/Shih Tzu mix.She has doubled that price in vet bills.What we are trying to say is that it's just crazy to pay so much money for a "mutt"

I have grown up with GSD's.I bought my first GSD from a licenced responsible breeder.I spend most of my time at dog shows.No I wasn't looking for a show dog.I was looking for a licenced responsible breeder.These breeders do health and genetic testing,they have been doing it for MANY years.Their dogs are of breed standard.If they weren't,then they wouldn't be showing them.The breed only once to twice a year.They know the pedigree as far as 5 generations.I was put on a waiting BEFORE breeding was to take place.I was put on a non-breeding contract.My one is a retired Police Dog.And I just lost my beautiful Yukon in September.The only time my dogs have ever needed to see a vet was for their yearly check up and shots.

We are just upst that you want to buy a mutt from irresponsible BYB's who are ONLY in it for the money.

Lucky Rescue
December 7th, 2004, 10:01 AM
fruithead, if you want to support backyard breeders and puppymills, go ahead.

Why do you feel you have to justify and rationalize it to us? We will never agree with puppymills and no one who cares about animals in the least ever would.

You want what you want, and you don't care how many of these dogs end up dead because of what you want.

There is no such breed as a "schnoodle". This is a cross of a poodle and a schnauzer. But if you want to pay 600- 1000$ for a mix, you'll be making one person happy - the disreputable person who is pumping them out for $$$ and who is laughing himself sick all the way to the bank.

Enjoy your dog and don't worry about the 104,000 homeless dogs on Petfinder, or the millions who are slaughtered in shelters every year. :thumbs up

have seen threads on this site, however, about rescue groups that are NOT recommended. So we all know they do exist.

This is true, but in comparison to the number of BREEDERS who are not recommended - who do no health testing, do not title their dogs, and breed dogs with genetic defects - this number is miniscule.

heeler's rock!
December 7th, 2004, 10:02 AM
I completely agree with what's been said to you fruithead. I have 3 dogs, and one I did get from a responsible breeder. That's my border collie. The one thing that I made sure of when I got her was that she was healthy, her parents were healthy, and that I got her after 8 weeks old as before that age they tend to develop serious behavioural issues. Most shelter dogs are the result of bad breeding and were most likely removed from the mum too early, thus resulting in behaviour issues. Your schnoodle will have the same problems if it is taken away at 6 or even 7 weeks. I'm guessing your pup will be about 6 - 6 1/2 weeks old when you receive it as these breeders want mum to be ready for the next round. Therefore, you'll most likely end up with the same result as a shelter dog with behavioural problems. My 2 rescue dogs came with issues, but helping them work through them helped us forge an unbelieveable bond and I can't imagine my life without them. My border collie is very special to me too, but my rescues know I've saved them from possible euthanasia and are very grateful for that. There is nothing wrong with wanting a purebred dog, but do your research before even thinking about it, especially when you're talking about a designer breed, from a byb.

mastifflover
December 7th, 2004, 10:35 AM
The breed you are talking about is by no means a purebred and never will be it is a mutt. If you want to spend way too much money on a dog who will inevietalbly have health or behaviour issues be my guest. I have owned and purchased purebred dogs before but I doubt that I ever will again. My last 2 Mastiffs were purebreds 1 Neapolitan and 1 English and were rescues. This is my favourite breed of dogs and one that is as Doguelover said very expensive because of all the health and genetic testing and veterinary costs. Also if you were dealing with a responsible and reputable breeder you would be interviewed and grilled like you were adopting a child, they want there dogs to go to responsible and committed people which by the way you dumped the cat you would not be considered for a potential puppy anyways. They ask about your previous pets and what happened to them. You will not have to worry about this thought because where you are getting your dog their biggest concern is that you have cash. You will just be paying for the dog and if the mother ever saw a vet I would be shocked. These byb and puppymills are just waiting for people like you who they can sell their designer dogs (mutts) too for over inflated prices. I hope you have started to save money for your future vet bills or will this dog be dumped like the cat.

Lucky Rescue
December 7th, 2004, 11:36 AM
Most shelter dogs are the result of bad breeding and were most likely removed from the mum too early, thus resulting in behaviour issues

I have to disagree with part of this. While it's true most dogs who end up in shelters are the result of irresponsible breeding, we have seen on this board many times the reasons why dogs end up in shelters.

Not enough time, priorities changed, having baby, moving, divorce, new partner doesn't want pet, dog got too big, new pet doesn't get along with old pet, and of course the all time favorite - allergies. Countless dogs die just because there aren't enough homes for them.

Any behavior issues are mostly caused by the owners, who can't be bothered training or exercising their dogs or even taking them to the vet.

There are thousands of wonderful, sweet dogs who have been dumped for no fault of their own - including gorgeous purebreds - and any of them would make fabulous pets.

heeler's rock!
December 7th, 2004, 11:49 AM
Agreed Lucky, but that's why I said most. Most people get dogs from irresponsible breeders, realize that they have issues with behaviour, too much enegy and so on, and dump them as you said. It is sad...poor dogs that don't deserve to be tossed away like yesterday's trash.... :sad:

mastifflover
December 7th, 2004, 11:53 AM
I also agree with that Lucky if people would spend some time with their pets and work with them there would be a lot less dogs dumped and imagine they would be trained and obedient. They do not come this way it is work.
The only thing that I disagree with is your least favourite reason mine is the were having a baby and we have to dump our loving dog. I guess it is like walking and chewing gum can't do both at once. So there is no way you could walk a dog and push a stroller. I also love to ask these people what will happen to the first child when they decide to have a second? They don't have a pound for kids, yet.

lil_kirk
December 7th, 2004, 12:14 PM
In defence of SarahJane who hasn't replied to Fruitheads comments about her and the pug picture she has beside her name (and who I hope returns to the board regardless of fruitheads inquisition on her)--I'd like to point out that just because someone has a picture beside their name of a purebred dog does not mean that they in fact own that dog, or look like that dog, or anything of the like. Many people have pictures beside their names that aren't in fact anything other than a symbol of what they like or something they find cute.

As with all of the other comments here, if you'd simply not read between the lines (because there isn't anything to read) you would see that a) SarahJane is a furbaby SEEKER and b) that no one is degrading your dog who I am sure you love and cherish. Many people on this board have mixed breed dogs (many of which have been rescued from shelters). They can be wonderful companions--we simply care about the fact that thousands of dogs are being euthanized because of irresponsible backyard breeder and puppy mills (which are most popular in dispensing low cost mixed breed puppies).

Delirium
December 7th, 2004, 12:27 PM
I have to add that I so very much agree.

A schnoodle or whatever it is, is not a breed. Its a mutt.

No breeding can be abided by in this time of crisis.

Those who buy as opposed to adopt are part of the problem.

Dee

heeler's rock!
December 7th, 2004, 12:35 PM
I agree mastifflover. If people spent more time training their pets, the dogs in shelters would also not have so many issues. Dogs are a lot of work fruithead and they don't come all perfectly mannered. My border collie took FOREVER to potty train. I was up at 2:00 in the morning to take her out to pee because her tiny bladder couldn't hold it. I had puppy pads for her to use, but sometimes she didn't want to and would poop or pee next to it! It was like having a child. So many sleepless nights just trying to train her to potty outside. Dogs are a lot of work, and rescue dogs can be more work, but it is such a great feeling to have someone compliment your dogs obedience and know that it's because you put the effort in to it. It is so rewarding to know that the work you put into them, starts to blossom into an amazing creature. They are the best reward I could have ever asked for.

lil_kirk
December 7th, 2004, 01:29 PM
As I always say--puppies are like babies. They need love, guidance and care. They don't use the toilet for years and they definitely do not wait until you are ready for them to "go." Like babies, you need to teach your dog--while they naturally know how to walk, they do not naturally know how to walk on a leash, pee outside, not pee inside, and generally act like a housepet.

This takes a lot of work--and oddly enough, buying a dog from a reputable place can make this process much easier.

SarahJane
December 7th, 2004, 01:49 PM
Ok, what the heck happened here since the last time I checked this thread? :confused:

The pug beside my name is not my pug at all... simply a dog I found cute so I made an icon out of it, like lil_kirk said (thank you lil_kirk). Sure, I adore pugs, but I adore all dogs... and I will be rescuing one - pug or not - in the new year. If I happen to come across a pug that needs to be rescued, I will be overjoyed! If I find another dog that needs me that is a perfect match, I will be overjoyed!

I have to say that I hate the concept of "breeding" and "breeds" in general to be honest.. it's a twisted display of humanity.

That doesn't stop me from liking particular breeds. Then again, there is no breed I don't like! ;)

And by the way, that doesn't also stop me from disagreeing from your choice of a "schnoodle"... a mutt created to make someone money.... 600+ for something you could have for much less! :rolleyes:

If I ever did decide to get a pug, it would be from only the MOST ethical breeder that worked to improve the breed by eliminating as many genetic health issues it could... that actually serves a purpose.

Schwinn
December 7th, 2004, 01:49 PM
Okay, two things. First, I thought we were talking about Destine?

Second, and I only say this as devil's advocate, no other reason. I have a rescue dog that I love more than anything (Except my wife, but more than my bike, which means a lot, especially since my wife thinks she's behind the bike), and who was house-broken in a week. Personally, I probably wouldn't get anything but a dog from the shelter. That being said...I know there has been instances where a dog has suddenly become a "recognized" breed (please don't ask me to name examples...I'm not that smart). And lots of today's "pure breds" started out as mutts (the American Bulldog, for example). So here's my question (and it is just a question), if the schnoodle ever becomes recognized, would that make it okay? Or what if the breeder of these dogs does all the proper things (weens it off the mother at the proper time, does background checks, etc)? I'll be honest, I don't buy the "licensed breeders don't do it for profit" arguement. I know several breeders who are registered, and that is all they do, and they aren't living in poverty. I'm not saying that the are profit driven, or they don't do it for the love of the dog, just that saying they don't profit...I don't believe that. I'm trying to get on the police force because I want to be a cop. That being said, if I only got enough money to cover my gas to get to work, and buy me lunch, I wouldn't do it. There are some very intelligent people on here, so please don't jump all over me. I'm asking the question as a point of discussion. As I said, I don't really care, I'll probably always get my pups from the local shelter, especially after Daisy (but she'll probably live forever, so I don't have to worry about it. Right? I SAID RIGHT! ;) )

heeler's rock!
December 7th, 2004, 02:20 PM
In my opinion, responsible breeding is the only way I'd ever get a purebred dog, and the only dog I have that's not a rescue was from a responsible person. It is true that the vast majority of dogs are in fact mutts, even "purbreds". Heelers for example, are crosses with dalmations, dingos, bull terriers, collies, and many others. They were all bred together until the people seeking a cattle herding dog, got what they desired. Heelers were bred for a purpose other than something to look at, which is true for the majority of breeds. The breeders of designer breeds are only breeding these schnoodles and others, for esthetics, not practicality. People want a small, compact, non-shedding, lap dog and thats where schnoodles, teripoos, cockapoos, and others come in. All dogs were bred in the beginning to serve mankind a purpose. Designer dogs have no real purpose, and they're just a fad that will fade along with Guess jeans, big hair, and cut offs. :(

In response to this comment though,
Those who buy as opposed to adopt are part of the problem.

I did buy Kia, my border, but I don't feel in any way that I am contributing to over crowded shelters. I bought her after rescuing Red, my heeler, and I rescued Helix, my heeler cross, after getting Kia. I also rescued my 3 cats and am fostering a cat right now. I've also spent 3 years volunteering with the rescue I got Red from. Not everyone who buys a dog is part of the problem.

MIA
December 7th, 2004, 03:06 PM
I have three purebred dogs and all of them were second hand dogs! All three had a few quarks when I got them but with a little effort they are all wonderful dogs who are the joy of my life. Many rescues I have had over the years are problem free! They easily adapt into a new home and don't always come with issues.

There are so many awesome dogs at shelters, rescues etc I can't see the need to BUY a dog. I am not against reputable breeders at all, I wish it were a lot harder to be a breeder. The problem is lack of education, laws and human greed.

All those designer breeds out there are only over priced-badly bred MUTTS!!! You can head to your local SPCA and buy what ever designer dog you want for about $100.00 already vaccinated and usually spayed or neutered. What a deal?!

Regardless of what anyone buys/adopts do it from a reputable source, not a BYB, mill or pet store. Be sure you research the breed of dog you are looking at, don't buy on looks alone you will end up in trouble. Research the cost and commitment dogs are.

That's my .02 for the day. :queen:

Lucky Rescue
December 7th, 2004, 03:17 PM
So here's my question (and it is just a question), if the schnoodle ever becomes recognized, would that make it okay?

In order to create a new breed and have it recognized, it must breed true for many generations (sorry dont' know many) In order to do this, it take years, money, time and a vast study and knowledge of genetics. Taking two dogs of different breeds, putting them together, calling the puppies "Schnoodles" or whatever is not the right way. Each puppy may look and act differently and if this breeding is done in ignorance, puppies may inherit the worst traits and genetic defects of both breeds.

Or what if the breeder of these dogs does all the proper things (weens it off the mother at the proper time, does background checks, etc)?

No, it's not okay. This is still backyard breeding mutts for profit, when millions of mutts are being killed every year. I am not using the word "mutt" in a derogatory fashion, but merely to denote a mixed breed or mongrel dog.

know several breeders who are registered, and that is all they do, and they aren't living in poverty

These are NOT reputable breeders if this is how they make a living - creating pets when pets are very overpopulated.

Reputable breeders do this as a very serious hobby - NOT a business - and breed only when they need a dog to carry on their program and to show to a championship. They MAY breed once every 5 or 6 years when their show dogs retire. No big profits there.

Shae
December 7th, 2004, 03:20 PM
Ready to be blasted but oh well, go ahead................. In my opinion, there is no such thing as an "ethical" breeder.Someone with morals and ethics should know better than to be adding to to the animal population when the shelters are over crowded and killing more and more every minute of everyday. The homeless animal population is so out of control. Breeding when so many are on death row. Everytime someone puchases from a breeder, another one is being killed at a shelter. We'll never have this under control unless people wise up and stop going to breeders and pet stores for their future companions. I know I sound like a broken record but PLEASE go to your local shelter or rescue instead.

mastifflover
December 7th, 2004, 03:28 PM
The breeder that I looked into when I wanted to get an English breeds 2 times a year only once per dog and they only ever have max. 4 litters in their breeding years. She said in a couple of years she has had 3 litters but never more than that. She has waiting lists for her dogs. You were grilled like you were adopting a child and that is what I was told to expect from a reputable breeder. I decided to wait and do rescue again and hope that a mastiff would come my way and they did. This is my second mastiff rescue. Rescue dogs are the best dogs you could ever own they know where they have been and how lucky they are to be loved and treated so well. I also have had other rescues but these guys have stolen my heart

fruithead
December 7th, 2004, 04:28 PM
i don't mean to add more fuel to the fire but...my breeder is not a backyard breeder. she is a breeder of west highland terriers who happens to breed schnoodles, i assume for a profit. i can't say i blame her. how else can she support her family? and i agree with schwinn, i've seen plenty of purebred breeders who live way above the poverty line. why is this?
and i do want a non-shedding lapdog but many people buy purebreds for the very same reason.
the only people on this board i can honestly agree with are those who don't condone breeding at all. those of you who pay a lot for a purebred are no better than those of us who buy a mutt. sure, schnoodles are designer breeds but those of you with, say, some kind of herding dog aren't using them to herd so they bear no better purpose than my designer dogs.
so why don't we all just boycott breeders in general?
i also find it very offensive that you assume my mutt will end up in a shelter one day. you people don't know me whatsoever. you don't even know my name or age or income. and there is no scientific reason to assume my dog will have genetic problems. believe me, if i do know one thing, it's science.
and i'm not justifying myself to you guys. i have no need to. i do, however, have a need to express my opinion.

mona_b
December 7th, 2004, 04:30 PM
Sorry to say but a Schnoodle will never be recognized in the CKC.Neither will a C0ckapoo,Larbradoodle and any other Oodle out there.As a member of the CKC,this is something that has been talked about.Along with BYB's and puppy mills,which we are totally against,and do everything in our power to hunt down the puppy mills and have them shut down.And it's been done.

All licenced responsible breeders have their dogs titled.Either in show or conformation.If there is a champion somewhere in the pedigree,say grandmother,well that's not good enough,and it means nothing.My dogs come from a long line of champions/titles.Depending on the breed,sire and or dam are imported.Whether it be Germany,Chech.

These breeders are active members in the dog world and belong to many groups.

I know of no BYB who fall under any of these catagories.They breed on the first heat.That could even be before a year.Licenced breeders do NOT breed in the first heat.They breed once all testing is done.And that's when she is 2 years old.
fruithead,she is a BYB.NO licenced breeder would ever be irrisponsible to breed a mutt.Also,licenced responsible breeders do no live above the poverty line.Those breeders who do are BYB's

heeler's rock!
December 7th, 2004, 04:47 PM
True, I don't use my border collie for herding, but my purpose for buying her, which only cost me $250.00, not $600+, is agility which border collies are also known for. The first thing the breeder asked me is , "If you live in the city, why do you want a border collie?" That's why. She wasn't able to start due to her still growing, but now that she is older, she can start her basic level agility.

No one said that all breeders of purbreds are reputible, so your question about why breeders still live above the poverty line remains. As it has been stated on here, reputible breeders, breed because it is a hobby to show dogs and they only breed when they need to keep their lines going. That's only once or twice every 5 years, as previously stated. The only breeders who live above the poverty line that do nothing but breed, are byb's and breeders that pump out puppies for profit, as previously stated. Your breeder is definitely not reputible if she's pumping out schnoodles just for profit, as previously stated. That is wrong and nothing you say will make it right. Read the posts before you reply so people aren't repeating themselves.

Schwinn
December 7th, 2004, 04:49 PM
So how do new "recognized" breeds come about? Or is the CKC refusing to recognize any new breeds? Or are there set "rules" for new breeds? If it's a licensed breeder who does this on the side, is that okay? I'm asking out of genuine curiosity. I'll be the first to admit I don't know anything about it.

mastifflover
December 7th, 2004, 05:23 PM
For instance the Neapolitan Mastiff has been around since the christians and the romans. They at one time were put into the ring with the christians for sport. Yeah Yeah we wont go there. But the breed is still not recognized by CKC they are hoping to get recognition this year. They are now recognized by the AKC so as you can see any of these oodles will not stand a snowballs chance in hell of getting recognized by AKC or CKC.
Now I don't know if you were referring to me but my Mastiffs were rescues even though I did consider buying one at a weak moment then thought long and hard and since the waiting list was long I had time to think. I started to search for Mastiffs needing homes and eventually saved Boo (Neapolitan Mastiff) and I do mean saved him. When I lost Boo I contacted a breeder that I know who is also involved in rescue and she helped to put me together with my boy Buddy. Buddy is a rescue as well even though he has papers I have never seen them and could careless about them. He would never have been bred he is not the perfect Mastiff but in my eyes and heart he is perfect and he thinks I am too. That is what you get from a rescue dog total love and admiration and lots of big slobbery kisses.

mona_b
December 7th, 2004, 05:46 PM
Neos are some what recognized,but under the Miscellaneous class.There are actually quite a few of the "older" breeds not recognized with the CKC.

Border Collies
Dogue de Bordeux
Shilo Shepherd
American Bulldog
American Pitbull Terrier.

These are just a few of them.

As you can see,these breeds have been around for a while and are not recognized as yet.But as mastiff stated,the oodles do not stand a snowballs chance in hell to be recognized.

MIA
December 7th, 2004, 05:55 PM
A note to Fruithead:

Any breeder that breeds for profit, breeds mixed breeds are NOT REPUTABLE, or ethical for that matter.

You support your family by getting a JOB not exploiting animals, sorry.

There are lots of bad breeders out there, doesn't make it right, it's wrong and the worse part is the dogs pay the price, not the people. Human greed is ugly and will always be.

I don't condone reputable breeding at all but for me I will NEVER buy a dog while the shelters are full. If you wait long enough the breed you want will show up.

Your mutt may not end up in a shelter but there is a good chance it may have a hereditary disease. I've met lots of VERY expensive designer dogs that have bad hips before the age of 2, that's because the breeders of said dogs don't care about that, they care about money, as well because it's not a proven breed you have NO idea what the dog will or will not get genetically speaking. There is also a good chance of it's litter mates ending up in a shelter, people that breed for money do not care where their dogs end up, it's a fact.

If you or anyone else want to support a back yard breeder go nuts, but do one thing first, go to your local pound and watch them kill a perfectly good 'designer' mutt only because nobody wants it. Once you have done that go nuts, spend your money on whatever you want.

Schwinn
December 7th, 2004, 06:18 PM
Not that I'm looking to have the heat turned on me, but just to be fair, I was the first one who stated I have seen breeders who do it for the money.

(Is there a smiley face for "sucker for punishment"?)

Lucky Rescue
December 7th, 2004, 06:22 PM
she is a breeder of west highland terriers who happens to breed schnoodles, i assume for a profit. i can't say i blame her. how else can she support her family?
http://www.gape.org/sonce/svetpogovorov/vzivo/chat/images/smilies/rofl2.gif
I must be an idiot. Here I am working to pay my mortgage, instead of letting my dog pay my bills by exploiting her. Darn, and I went and had her spayed.

And anyone with two or 3 litters on the ground in one year is breeding to create pets and make profits. Nothing more.

DogueLover
December 7th, 2004, 06:30 PM
Just curious.........
Even after everyone has offered their opinions, and all I might add with their good points, are we continuing to convince her to not buy a Schnoodle?
We all know that she is going to buy one anyway............. so........... I will just say this much.
When you get this dog and it DOES have medical and temperment issues be sure that you thank the guy upstairs for giving you a big enough throat to swallow your pride and come begging for help.

The "breeder" you mentioned breeds for profit, not for the benefit of the breed. If she truly cared about anything but money she would not possibly have time to be breeding all the breeds you mentioned, as she would be busy at dog shows getting titles for her dogs.

She has not screened her potential owners, if she had and gave a damn about where her beloved schnoodles were going YOU would not be getting one. She wants your money, and doesn`t give a rip about the quality of dog you get or the quality of home the dog will get.
As it was mentioned before, any breeder that isn`t into this for money, will screen you as tough as a new parent wanting to adopt a child, and would not want a puppy going to a home where another pet was just "dumped".

I guess, in retrospect, I am considered a contributer to the problem as I did buy my Dogue de Bordeaux from a breeder. I disagree with that line of thinking and had I been able to find a Bordeaux to rescue in the years that I searched for one ( and I mean 23 of them) I would have rescued one....... but I didn`t find any in all that time. There are Bordeaux rescue groups in the USA but they rarely adopt to people in Canada. So what are you to do?
I made my choice and no matter what anyone may say I do not regret it.
I have a "perfect angel" that I am very proud of and that I am reminded every day why she is the dog for me and my family.
Chew me apart if you must............ but I honestly know that this particular dog was meant to be with my family and me.......... if you want to know all the reasons I believe so just ask me the story of how we ended up with her is quite unique and somewhat spooky.


One final note,,,,, how many of you who do have purebreds from breeders have a close relationship with the breeder? I talk to my Dogue`s breeder every month and send weekly emails with pictures of the dog and us. I think you have to be careful when lumping all people who buy purebreds and have done their research with those who just want a "designer mutt" from a byb.

Not everyone who buys a purebred is contributing to the problem. Irresponsible owners are more of a contributing factor, as are the breeders who do not screen these people out.

mona_b
December 7th, 2004, 06:52 PM
I have a very close relationship with my breeder.3 of my GSD's have come from her.I had my first,Cujo for 13 amazing years.He was 4 when my daughter was born.He was great with her.Watched her like a hawk.And was very protective of her.I just lost Yukon,8 years old in September.And I miss him so very much.Tron,also 8, is a retired Police Dog.I had him for 18 months.I did all the basic training,then my brother took him for the rest of the training.Tron had to come from a breeder.And my breeder has produced many fine Police Dogs,show and titled dogs.She has since retired due to cancer.She's doing well so far.I actually talked to her last week.Her dogs that she has are keeping her company and happy on her bad days.

Delirium
December 7th, 2004, 07:05 PM
Ready to be blasted but oh well, go ahead................. In my opinion, there is no such thing as an "ethical" breeder.Someone with morals and ethics should know better than to be adding to to the animal population when the shelters are over crowded and killing more and more every minute of everyday. The homeless animal population is so out of control. Breeding when so many are on death row. Everytime someone puchases from a breeder, another one is being killed at a shelter. We'll never have this under control unless people wise up and stop going to breeders and pet stores for their future companions. I know I sound like a broken record but PLEASE go to your local shelter or rescue instead.

I can't agree with this enough. In a time of crisis, people need to put down their hobbies and pick up a shovel. There is no room at the inn for the frivolty that is breeding, "responsible" or not. When animals aren't dying lonely horrible deaths, then tell me about your "purebred".


In response to this comment though,

Those who buy as opposed to adopt are part of the problem.



And i'll say it again. Those who buy as opposed to adopt are part of the problem.

If every "responsible" breeder who supposedly "loves their breed" referred each of their clients to a shelter we'd be in alot better shape then we are today. An undying love of the breed should mean a desire not to see them, or any other dog for that matter, die. All breeders take up a spot in a potential adopter's home. I look forward to the day when dog lovers the world around have no other option but to adopt when pursuing a pet. Maybe then, we'll see a dent made in the epidemic that is the current state of the domestic animal world. I shudder at the thought that a household with the money to shell out huge amounts of money on purchasing an animal is wasting it on a breeder. Imagine what those thousands of dollars (per dog!!!) could do to rehabilitate a dog who needed or even just in general supplies for the shelters themselves. Spending it on anything else is tragic and heartbreaking.

Finally, the poster with the schnoodle thing? That is so not an ethical
breeder in even the vaguest sense. And that's even me attempting to adopt a more liberal view for this response.

Dee

fruithead
December 7th, 2004, 07:09 PM
A note to Dogue Lover,
You said:
She has not screened her potential owners, if she had and gave a damn about where her beloved schnoodles were going YOU would not be getting one.
I don't think it's necessary to resort to personal insults. But that's just my opinion. No matter what dog my family owns, no matter where it comes from or what problems come with it, we will love and cherish it forever and, in the end, that's all that really matters. Now that is something I do not need to justify to you. Grow up.

heeler's rock!
December 7th, 2004, 07:26 PM
All breeders take up a spot in a potential adopter's home.

Were it not for my purebred border collie, I never would have even looked at rescuing another dog. When I saw Helix on Petfinder, I knew he and my girl would be best friends. Fate drew us together and I truely believe that if we hadn't adopted him, he would not be alive. He was saved by a family that does care, very much, even though we own a purebred aswell. We worked soooooo hard with training him to make him a good dog. It's like saying people can't adopt a child and have one of their own, or saying
every "purebred" child takes up potential room in an adopters house! I'm tired of defending myself, so we'll just have to agree to disagree I guess. I really didn't think that I was a horrible person just because I own one purebred and 2 rescues, insted of 3 rescues, not to mention my 3 rescued cats.

Delirium
December 7th, 2004, 07:30 PM
The children/pet argument is long overdone and entirely irrelevant. Its not comparable since there aren't children dying in cages or being euthanized daily due to overpopulation. When that point is reached, then we'll talk.

Dee

DogueLover
December 7th, 2004, 07:35 PM
The comment was not an insult, I just know that the screening I went through with the breeder I got my Dogue from would not have even considered me if I had just "dumped" another pet.
Sorry if you took it personally, I actually made several points about you getting this type of dog for yourself as it is your choice, no one is going to change your mind.
I think the one who needs to do some growing up is yourself, don`t come to a site where you can read what the general concenses is about buying dogs and then get angry with people for giving their opinion when that is what you had asked for in the first place.

Read all of my posts, then you can see that I am considered to be one of the "problems" as I bought a purebred from a breeder instead of rescuing one.......... honestly, check out how many other people told you the same thing about the breeder and what would happen if you were to get a dog from a reputable breeder.( I know that I am not the only one who gave this response to you........... )

Buy your beloved dog and for your sake I hope that the breeder has some form of ethics for when you have questions that only someone who has a vast knowledge of this particular mix will have answers for.

Talk about picking out one quote out of all the threads posted here :mad:
If you`d like I can go back and pick out the threads that told you exactly what I did, maybe you want to chew them out too????

Lucky Rescue
December 7th, 2004, 07:48 PM
Now that is something I do not need to justify to you. Grow up

Exactly. As I said earlier, I don't know why you keep trying to justify it and then argue that you don't need to. Why do you care what we think? Conscience?

Go and get your schnoodle or whatever. Enjoy!

MIA
December 7th, 2004, 07:58 PM
The children/pet argument is long overdone and entirely irrelevant. Its not comparable since there aren't children dying in cages or being euthanized daily due to overpopulation. When that point is reached, then we'll talk.

Dee

Have you looked at the situation in China? Female babies are being dumped and killed secretly! We are there NOW, there are orphans all over the world begging for homes.

Delirium
December 7th, 2004, 08:05 PM
Have you looked at the situation in China? Female babies are being dumped and killed secretly! We are there NOW, there are orphans all over the world begging for homes.

I've actually been to China and travelled quite a bit through south east Asia. The situation is a tad bit different in reality. There are not girls in cages being euthanized, however their policies on one child families are of course renowned. I definately do not liken it to the scope of the animal over population epidemic as it does not span the globe. Western culture, among others, is an example of that. Of course there is strife; disease; hunger, however that's reality, not overpopulation. And if the percentages were similar, the amount would be astoundingly greater. Also, it would be more evenly distributed.

I'll say again, the argument comparing children to dogs in terms of over population is not valid and really can't be compared at this point. While both species have their area of concern, humans are by far not universally in that bad a state otherwise you and I would have had quite a different upbringing. In conventional thought, we are definately not at the same levels. What's the north american population of dogs and cats? With almost 5 million of them dying each year, not to mention the number kept in cages without becoming a statistic, it would really be interesting to know the percentages. Then, you can apply that to the North American population and determine exactly how many children would need to be in orphanages and/or abandoned for it to even relate. If we have world dog/cat euthanization stats you can do it globally as well. I reckon that the numbers will support my theory. While I won't argue the ridiculousness of the comparison as some will, I will argue that the numbers just aren't even in the same ballpark.

Dee

Delirium
December 7th, 2004, 08:22 PM
I have a very close relationship with my breeder.3 of my GSD's have come from her.I had my first,Cujo for 13 amazing years.He was 4 when my daughter was born.He was great with her.Watched her like a hawk.And was very protective of her.I just lost Yukon,8 years old in September.And I miss him so very much.Tron,also 8, is a retired Police Dog.I had him for 18 months.I did all the basic training,then my brother took him for the rest of the training.Tron had to come from a breeder.And my breeder has produced many fine Police Dogs,show and titled dogs.She has since retired due to cancer.She's doing well so far.I actually talked to her last week.Her dogs that she has are keeping her company and happy on her bad days.

I'm doing some personal research on police dogs, trying to find out more about them. There are a number of programs that are trying to get shelter dogs trained up as emergency response animals which is obviously where my interest lies. Would you mind if I asked what breeder you went to? I have no intention of contacting them. I just research both sides of all topics that i'm interested in so that I can feel comfortable with my eventually decided upon opinion. Do they have a website that I can view?

Dee

heeler's rock!
December 7th, 2004, 09:49 PM
I wasn't comparing the over population stats. I was stating that your comment can compare to the adoption scenario aswell. Millions of children are in foster care right now in North America waiting for homes, and just because they are not being euthanized doesn't mean that they're not being looked over because people want children of their own, or want babies and not older kids. Let's not even mention the hundreds of children growing up on some of the streets in Mexico, selling gum for money!! That's just North America! Anyways, this is completely off topic, and I stand by my convictions as do you delirium, so I'm done with this thread.

Hound_Dog
December 7th, 2004, 11:09 PM
I think that everyone here should leave destiny and fruithead alone. They've made up their mind as to what they want to do. We can't change that.

I think that it is silly and irresponsible to ask advice for something that you know the answer to begin with. Destiny...a Chihuahua or a Bulldog? Come on....how can anyone here take you seriously when you're asking to compare apples and oranges. Yes, they are both dogs...but they might as well be completely different species.

Fruithead, for the last time, take the chip off your shoulder. I think you're intelligent enough to know that people aren't attacking you directly. Why are you so interested in attacking other people? Angry because someone doesn't support your decision to buy a Schnoodle? I don't either. Angry because someone owns a purebred? I own four. Take a swing...

Do whatever you guys want to do...I don't care and frankly, I don't want to hear about it.

DogueLover
December 8th, 2004, 12:13 AM
I think you have voiced what we all wanted to say.
;)
In past threads it was mentioned that it is difficult to comprehend what someone is trying to say across the internet as you cannot hear their voice.
IMO most of the time what is taken as an insult was never intended to be..... and I would hate to see people taken off this site because of a misinterpretation of what they were trying to get across.

Delirium
December 8th, 2004, 07:26 AM
I wasn't comparing the over population stats. I was stating that your comment can compare to the adoption scenario aswell. Millions of children are in foster care right now in North America waiting for homes, and just because they are not being euthanized doesn't mean that they're not being looked over because people want children of their own, or want babies and not older kids. Let's not even mention the hundreds of children growing up on some of the streets in Mexico, selling gum for money!! That's just North America! Anyways, this is completely off topic, and I stand by my convictions as do you delirium, so I'm done with this thread.

And i'll say again, the comparison is completely invalid due to both the nature of each of the problems and the extent.

If there were just a small percentage of homeless dogs and cats, not requiring the mass euths that we see today nor the horrible conditions, then it wouldn't be an epidemic either. However, while we as humans are lucky that we don't have wide spread horrors affecting a huge majority of our population, dogs and cats aren't so lucky. As such, the severity is a different level and the response should be also. Hence, my pushing for adoption as the only option while generally ignoring those who choose to have kids. I of course am not one of them but I see no reason for the world to be up in arms yet. It should be gearing up for war however when it comes to our tragically neglected domestic animals.

Dee

mona_b
December 8th, 2004, 08:41 AM
I'm doing some personal research on police dogs, trying to find out more about them. There are a number of programs that are trying to get shelter dogs trained up as emergency response animals which is obviously where my interest lies. Would you mind if I asked what breeder you went to? I have no intention of contacting them. I just research both sides of all topics that i'm interested in so that I can feel comfortable with my eventually decided upon opinion. Do they have a website that I can view?

Dee

As I have stated,she is now retired due to her health.So there is no longer a website.What is it that you need to know?My brother is a cop with the K9 unit.So if there is anything you need to know just ask away.I know quite alot about them.I can tell you that that they start their training with their handler at 18 months.They must pass all 3 stages of schH,tracking,obedience and protection.The sire is usually imported.The K9 force will not use shelter dogs.They need to come from a licenced responsible breeder.These dogs must be OFA and OVC certified.These are very hard working dogs and need to be healthy.Hence the health and genetic testing.Dams are done at 2 years of age,sires at 18 months.These dogs come from a long line of titled pedigrees.

Same with the Seeing Eye Dogs.They also come from licenced breeders.They are forstered out untill they are about a year.My neice forstered a Lab pup that was being trained.It broke her heart when her year was up and she had to return him.Yes,Samson did pass.

As for Sevice dogs for the deaf,or in a wheel chair,yes they are adopted from the shelter.They go through alot of testing and extensive training.

As for SAR dogs,you can even train your dog for this and volunteer.

If you have any questions,ask away.

Schwinn
December 8th, 2004, 09:39 AM
Okay, what happened? It's like I got on a bus to Toronto, fell asleep, and woke up somewhere in New Mexico! Can you say, "Got of track?" I knew you could.

I wanted to try and stay out of the insanity that this thread has become, but I do need to say one thing to Dee:
I would say that the population of humans is a far more serious crisis, and I'm sure those in Africa, Ethiopia and China would agree with me. The people dying due to over-population and not enough resources far out-weigh the number of pets being put down. And you're right, it is a rather silly arguement, but you're making it more bizarre. No offense intended.

Okay, I now return everyone back to thier regularly scheduled chaos.

Delirium
December 8th, 2004, 10:08 AM
The discussion differs from the original post but that doesn't make it any less meaningful. The opinions represented are important, up-to-date and relevant to this site as a whole so I see nothing wrong with them being discussed.

Sure, its serious. However its not widespread. Its limited to certain locations for specific reasons. If it was global, like the pet over population problem, you and I would not be sitting here as comfortably as we are today. That's my point. One doesn't throw the word epidemic around lightly and it has never been applied to human over population in the same sense.

The comparison itself is bizarre so it cannot help to sound that way on explanation. Through validity nor fact is the comparison valid.

Dee

heeler's rock!
December 8th, 2004, 10:14 AM
I agree that this thread has gotten out of hand. BTW, where is Destine? She's asks a question, but doesn't come back to check out her resopnses?

The only reason I brought up human adoption and animal adoption is because I hate being made to feel bad for having a purebred dog. I wanted to get a border collie and couldn't find one at that time that was a pup, that was close to me in rescue, so I bought one after doing a lot of research. It was a great experience to be able to meet the pup and her siblings, the people breeding them, and her parents. It was a unique feeling for me since up to that point I had only rescued. Also, when I say a pup in rescue close to me, I mean anywhere in Alberta, eastern BC, or western Sask. When we were looking for pups, we drove all over Alberta to meet the people breeding and the dogs they were breeding before we chose the people we did.

When we rescued Helix, we rented a Jeep and drove to Lloydminster (about a 6 - 7 hour drive from Calgary) with both Red and Kia, and stayed in a motel overnight just to pick him up, even though the people in the rescue were coming to Calgary and would have brought him with them for us! We drove so we could get him sooner and spend more time with him! I hate people that think I'm adding to this problem and making me feel bad, when I obviously love animals A LOT! Okay, that's enough. I feel better now that I've vented. Thank you. :o

Required_Fields
December 8th, 2004, 10:15 AM
You need a dog right now, pronto, before christmas, because you "feel as is something is missing from your family". Did you get a kid because "something was missing in your relationship", did you get married because you felt "you were not complete".....
Consider getting a dog if you like to spend a lot of time walking outdoors and getting healthy with your pooch, and caring for him because you enjoy spending time with animals --not because your family is DULL!

Schwinn
December 8th, 2004, 10:47 AM
I think the counter-arguement to people who buy from breeders adding to the problem would be, would they have bought a dog if they couldn't get that breed? If yes, it could be said they might be adding to the problem, but if no, then they would not be. I think most people who go to the trouble of searching for a breeder would not be adding to the problem, because they would not go to a shelter for any type of dog. Of course, there will always be anomalies to this, but I think in general this is true.

Again, Daisy was a pity-rescue ;) , so this is just my theory.

mastifflover
December 8th, 2004, 11:07 AM
Heelers you really don't need to justify getting a dog from a breeder you obviously care deeply about animals and have done your share of rescues. If this is a dog you wanted then so be it. Same for you Dogue.
Dee, I am sorry but I treat my dog like my child because to me he is. I have never wanted 2 legged type. My #1 concern is animals they always get the short end of the stick when it comes to funding and rights. They did not asked to be dumped in fields or on a highway or drowned or the numerous other things that are done to them. This board is about them not children because a lot of us do consider them our children. Your points are all valid about children and adoption but honestly not what my biggest concern, I know that sounds cold but it is how I feel. I've actually been to China and travelled quite a bit through south east Asia. The situation is a tad bit different in reality. There are not girls in cages being euthanized, however their policies on one child families are of course renowned. I definately do not liken it to the scope of the animal over population epidemic as it does not span the globe. Western culture, among others, is an example of that. Of course there is strife; disease; hunger, however that's reality, not overpopulation.
I guess you missed the special on the Discovery Channel with Lisa Ling where she showed the rooms in China called the dying rooms where they leave girls in there for days with no human contact or food or medical attention and let them die by themselves and let the other abandoned girls tell them when they are dead.

heeler's rock!
December 8th, 2004, 12:27 PM
Thanks Mastiff. It's hard being told that I am causing the problem rather than trying to help fix it. :o I also just got a call from another volunteer group that I was accepted to help out with. It's a group that helps people cope with the loss of their pet. I go to orientation next month! I can't wait to help out some more! :)

In Dee's defence though, I brought up the whole analogy between human adoption and pet adoption to illustrate a point that got taken out of control and out of context. I hope this thread gets back on track and back to the main point which is the fact that Destine wants a dog. I don't think Destine will be eligible to adopt a dog as she is "getting rid of" her cat due to her husbands allergies towards it, and is getting a dog instead. Her husband is not allergic to the other cat, just the one. She hasn't rehomed her cat yet, and is already planning on getting her dog. As I stated before, that's just not right, or fair. She makes it sound like she's trading in a car rather than a life..... So where are you Destine? Why haven't you come back?

mastifflover
December 8th, 2004, 12:41 PM
Sorry Delirium I just reread my post and it was not meant as a jab at you but I meant you should see it they were saying how these dying rooms were a well kept secret and they were well hidden. You should really see it I found it appalling that this could and still does go on.
You know what she is going to buy her oodle and we have tried to get our point across but she is not open to hearing it. So she will go support her byb and I hope for the dogs sake it is healthy because honestly that is all that is important. Plus she will keep one more money grabbing person employed at the cost of all these dogs lives. But that is not the important thing the first and foremost important thing is that she get her designer mutt for way to money. Instead of going to a shelter that has all of these dogs in them but you dont have to pay 600.00 for one so they are mutts and hers will be a designer mutt, and she also can say it came from a breeder (not saying what kind of breeder). She could actually get a purebred dog from a shelter Oh but there is that shelter word again and we could never tell our friends our dog came from a shelter.

Sheriffmom
December 8th, 2004, 03:12 PM
Just a little about facts, regarding the epidemic of children in orphanages go to http://www.missionfinder.org/orphanages.htm# It has a list of only Christian based orphanages around the world.... there are 4pages with about 100 per page in just 3rd world countries, not to mention the 100's it lists in North America. Many of these orphanages "rescues" children who would otherwise be left to die due to HIV/AIDS, and other illnesses. The Romanian orphanages have literal cages stacked atop each other where babies and yourg children are kept. China, Belize and many African nations have cribs stacked atop each other where some Children are only taken out every few days. If you want to bring up the topic of Children and Adoptions and not call it an epidemic then you must not have done any research..... Trust me (due to familial overseas adoptions) we have done a lot of research. The above site is just a listing of Christian run facilities, not all the state/country facilities.
I agree with you that children and dogs are different..... but for some of us here, our dogs/cats are our children, we neither have nor want the 2 legged kind..... Both are innocent, and neither deserve the abuse heaped on them both in this country, this continent, and the world in general.
Think about the sexual abuse rates in this country, the physical abuse rates, genital mutilation of infants, deplorable orphanage conditions, parents killing their own children.... there is an epidemic of abuse, torment, disease and neglect against the children of the world.
Just my 2 cents..... (don't mean to offend anyone) :)

heeler's rock!
December 8th, 2004, 03:26 PM
I really didn't mean to start anything regarding the comparison between children and animal adoptions, but I find it funny that when the situation warrents it, like with training, people always compare raising a dog to raising a child, but when the comparison about adoptions is made, it's all of a sudden "irrelevent". I agree with what sheriffmom says about children suffering all over the world, North America included, being an epidemic, but that is a topic for another board.

Anyways, mastifflover, it was fruithead who is talking about getting the schnoodle, not destine, although fruithead sortof hijacked this thread with her rudeness and ignorance about schnoodles. This thread was started by destine who has not come back to post since she started it. Hmmm...I smell a pair of trolls!!!!! :evil:

mastifflover
December 8th, 2004, 03:28 PM
Sorry got lost in this mayhem it is hard to keep track of all the characters

Schwinn
December 8th, 2004, 03:31 PM
We really need a bouncing ball, like those sing-along shows have, to help you keep track.


And I agree, children and dogs do have similarities, and differences, as I found out when my brother-in-law asked me to baby sit. When he asked about diapers, I said what diapers? I've raised a few dogs, and you just put paper down and let them walk around naked. I haven't been asked since... :D

Sheriffmom
December 8th, 2004, 03:55 PM
I always say I'll have a 2legged creature when I can leave them in a crate for 2hrs to go shopping, and there are "boarding kennels" for them, when I need an overnight break!!! LOL :p

mastifflover
December 8th, 2004, 04:00 PM
I do not baby sit if they are in diapers it will not happen. I figure if I have gone my whole life with never changing a diaper I am not going to ruin a perfectly good track record.

heeler's rock!
December 8th, 2004, 04:07 PM
That's funny! :D My mom had my sis when I was 11 years old so I got the pleasure of diaper changing and giving up my summers to babysit the brat!! Oooopps!! Did I say that out loud? :D

We plan on having kids, but not until my pups grow up a bit. That could be years from now!!! :D I honestly can't wait to be a mommy! Until they're 8. Then they can get a job and move out!! Just kidding!!!!!! :D

Delirium
December 8th, 2004, 06:28 PM
There is a clear misunderstanding (or mis reading) of my points re: children. I personally don't like them, nor do I want them. Also, since we're still talking about pets this thread isn't off topic. Finally, and i'll state again, one can dance around the facts in each universe all day. The point is, they don't transfer over and if they did you'd have to convert the numbers. When you do, they can't even compare.

Dee

mona_b
December 8th, 2004, 06:34 PM
Hmmmm,I find it hard to understand how we who have purebreds(from licenced responsible breeders)are contributing to the over population.I would say that 80-90% of of the dogs all over come from BYB's and puppy mills and irrisponsible owners who do NOT spay and neuter.Breed when they come in first heat,which can be at even 6 months.And only do it for the money.My sister has 4 dogs.Three Siberians and a Border Collie.Her one comes from a licenced responsible breeder.Sydney was a return to the breeder.The other 2 and the Border Collie were rescues.Since she is on a farm she would love to rescue more.But 4 is enough along with 4 teenagers.I guess I should call her and tell her she has contributed to the over population.

Delirium
December 8th, 2004, 06:38 PM
I believe I've stated a few times already in this thread how I feel that they do so i'm not going to do it again.

This is a time of crisis. Time to abandon frivolty and pick up a shovel.

Dee

heeler's rock!
December 8th, 2004, 08:09 PM
Mona, you just can't get through to some people, so don't worry about it. :o

This thread was starting to get off topic, since the original question was whether Destine should get a chi or a bully. We all got off topic by talking about purebreds and about kids and adoption. To me, that misses the point entirely of whether destine should get a chi or a bully. :rolleyes:

Delirium
December 9th, 2004, 08:01 AM
Mona, you just can't get through to some people, so don't worry about it. :o


And you know, I completely agree.

Mona, in furthering my research on service animals, my focus has really turned to specifically GSDs. While I realise that your breeder is retired, what was their name? I've found a bit of a history of the breed and its champions in Ontario. Tragic how its one of the most prevalent dogs in Ontario shelters.

Dee

dove
December 9th, 2004, 08:11 AM
:confused: Destine21. I am sorry but what you are looking for and why is all wrong. only my two cents. the people commenting on your post, are right